Norway's new frigates rust after 3 months..

[Raggi_Thor]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

Poor maintainance springs to mind! ...

After three months?

[Raggi_Thor]

Nice Guillermo (that you know them and will ask), I did not mean to imply that there is a lower level of quality in Spain than in (for example :-) Norway. I know there are many satisfied ship owners with boats built in Spain.

[Raggi_Thor]

Originally Posted by Richard Hillsid

Don’t import form India, China or Spain,
We all have our jobs to look after and we make the duality that is needed in our country wherever it is...

I don't agree!

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by Poida

We build boats too and export them, and we don't charge extra for the rust.

Thats because we build them out of Aluminium alloys. The steel boat works mostly have moved offshore from Australia to countries that pay $10 a day to their fabricators. We have the high tech equipment engineers and craftsmen for the modern fast alloy ships patrol boats etc and that is our main export market. The remaining steel fabricators are Government contract works and generally smaller fishing boat yards that come and go. No steel shipbuilding here any more.

[MikeJohns]

Originally Posted by Raggi_Thor

I don't agree!

I suspect his thoughts are more anti-Globalisatin

Deals within Europe such as these vessels are not quite the same as the Globalisation issues. If they had been built in Bangladesh I feel it would be different.

The doctrine of 'profit maximization' over social responsibility, often in the third world countries people get locked into a labor scheme which ensures their continued poverty while western corporations save by ignoring safety standards and environmental protection, they can then pay out bigger dividends to western shareholders.

There are many industries where Multi-National Corp's simply exploit the locals and this exploitation does not improve the locals lot one bit. examples like the brand name 'Nike' in Indnesia and the 'Union Carbide' works in India are rotten to the core. The exploits of MN mining companies are legend in third world countries, No control no care no responsibility and impossible to persue. The globalisation model is often flawed since it lacks effective social and environmental control.

It is interesting that there are two camps against Globalisation, one is the xenaphobic right concerned only with the local economy and the other is the liberal left concerned with the exploited 3rd world country.

High tech boat building is safe because your labor force is very specialised and hard to get. Steel shipbuilding unless specialised is relatively easy to move to a cheap labor market. If the import duty has dropped to 10% then the local shipbuilders are out of a job since it requires around 40% duty here for parity with $10 day labor.

[Raggi_Thor]

Mike, I agree with you I think, globalisation can be good or bad, I don't like protectionism, often disguised as consern for the poor workers or child labour etc. On the other hand, it's sad to watch on TV how indian workers are treated for example where they recycle old tankers with no safety equipment etc.

[djwkd]

Originally Posted by Raggi_Thor

It has been much talk in Norway about the new frigates (correct name?) being built in Spain, by Navantia . Now I guess many Norwegian boat builders are saying "what did I tell you". Three months after delivery, there is allready rust on the deck and topsides. The reason is, according to local radio, insufficient cleaning after sand blasting and before painting and a "bad paint job" (don't know if they mean the quality of the paint or the work).
According to DNV rust like this normally takes 2 years to develop.

Picture is taken from
http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hordaland/1.931528

Miguel Martinez Guerro in Navantia says this kind of rust is completely normal and has to be expected.

Here is a brief description of one of the frigates from Navantia;
http://www.navantia.es/cgi-bin/run.d...p/categoria.do

And from Ricerche Militari
http://www.ricerchemilitari.it/Products/Nansen.htm

Any comments?
Guillermo? :-)

yea,but in 2 years the frigate wikll probably be deemed out of service (it is possible).

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Poida

We build boats too and export them, and we don't charge extra for the rust.

About the rust on steel boats I have a question that I believe is of interest for many people, I mean for the ones that are as Ignorant as me about maintenance and life expectancy of a paint job on a steel boat.

Sometime ago, in another thread about a sailing steel boat someone said that a good painting, made with modern materials, could last for 20 years. I found it strange, but as no one replied and I didn't know much about it, I kept my mouth shut.

Afterwards I have noticed that 2nd hand top quality steel boats advertised for sail with 10 years, all have a new paint job and some with only six years advertised also a new paint job.

So the question is: How long will it be expected to last a good paint job in a Yacht and what kind of maintenance is needed?

[marshmat]

Well, I can't say for sure, but if I were a yacht broker I would almost certainly put a new paint job on any steel boat I'm trying to sell, unless the existing paint is absolutely flawless. Appearance goes a long way on yachts and I wouldn't be surprised if a $10,000 repainting on a big yacht puts the final price $25,000 higher, simply because the boat looks newer and nicer.

[Raggi_Thor]

Nowegian's navy and DNV expected at least two years.

[safewalrus]

Depends on a lot of things, where the vessel is to be used, climate etc how often it is to be used, (i.e. how hard will she be pushed - charging a warship into force 6's with the occasiinal hard turns and 6 month refits every year compared to battling a supply vessel through arctic seas of consistent force 8 and above with two days refit once every two years could make a difference!) and finally, and most importantly the conditions under which the coat(s) of paint are applied (plus their composition) can have a large effect on how long it lasts - I've seen a 'test piece' done in perfect conditions last for 15 years whereas the same bit (a hatch coaming) start to rust on the edge with 100s of feet scrambling over it daily last two weeks before needing a repaint, this was painted at sea between storms with only a freshwater wash down bwfore application of paint - to use an English expression " it's horses for courses" if you see what I mean

[Guillermo]

I still haven't met the Naval Engineer in charge of construction. I will meet him on this next 25th. But in the mean time, here what I've heard about this rust issue:
- The quality of the paint used and painting scheme was decided by the Norwegian Navy, against the shipyard's recommendation.
- Consulted the NDLO (Nortwegian Defense Logistic Organization) by journalists, refused to make comments on the problem.
- Jan E. Finseth, maximum responsible of the Norwegian Navy, at the delivery of the F-310 Fridthof Nansen, stated his great content because they were getting the highest technology available.
- The problem seems to arise from an extra cost of 19 MM Euros Navantia pretends to collect from the Norwegian Ministry of Defense, caused by the several changes and extras asked for by the Norwegian Navy Offiicers during construction.
- This has been used by the Norwegian press to blame Navantia and, by extension, the Norwegian Navy. Same press stated that the Norwegian Navy was going to rescind the contract for the remaining units, which has been denied by the Norwegian Navy.
- Birgitte Frisch, NDLO's media responsible, stated as good the relationship with the shipyard, just stating they do not agree to pay the extra cost asked for by Navantia.


(More to come soon....)

[Raggi_Thor]

Thanks Guillermo, it's interesting.
And just to be sure, I have absolutely no interest in this case except curiosity :-)

[StianM]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

The quality of the paint used and painting scheme was decided by the Norwegian Navy, against the shipyard's recommendation.
- Consulted the NDLO (Nortwegian Defense Logistic Organization) by journalists, refused to make comments on the problem.
- Jan E. Finseth, maximum responsible of the Norwegian Navy, at the delivery of the F-310 Fridthof Nansen, stated his great content because they were getting the highest technology available.
- The problem seems to arise from an extra cost of 19 MM Euros Navantia pretends to collect from the Norwegian Ministry of Defense, caused by the several changes and extras asked for by the Norwegian Navy Offiicers during construction.
- This has been used by the Norwegian press to blame Navantia and, by extension, the Norwegian Navy. Same press stated that the Norwegian Navy was going to rescind the contract for the remaining units, which has been denied by the Norwegian Navy.
- Birgitte Frisch, NDLO's media responsible, stated as good the relationship with the shipyard, just stating they do not agree to pay the extra cost asked for by Navantia.


(More to come soon....)

Spain use there pres to blaim Norway and Norway use thre pres to blame Spain. Anny suprise there?

[boatsource]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Well, I can't say for sure, but if I were a yacht broker I would almost certainly put a new paint job on any steel boat I'm trying to sell, unless the existing paint is absolutely flawless. Appearance goes a long way on yachts and I wouldn't be surprised if a $10,000 repainting on a big yacht puts the final price $25,000 higher, simply because the boat looks newer and nicer.

Yikes, you'd go broke as a yacht broker then! Unless of course you have an air tight life time exclusive listing agreement and with a very good commission percentage and you know the boat is a sellable boat. Better yet would be to convince the seller to pay for the paint job.