Noahs' Ark- Better than New?

[CaptBill]

By the way I am fascinated with Indian archeology.
Nice photos.

[Boston]

and what qualified seismic scanning personnel performed these tests
who corroborated there data
what university funded there research
or were there vested interests directly involved in funding this work
who wrote what paper and where was it peer reviewed
where was it published
what scientific journal took it on themselves to verify and publish these claims
do you have any actual scientific data free of encumbrances or competing interests that support these claims

and assuming these claims are accurate and given that ancient homes were first built on the concepts of ship designs do you have any evidence
hull growth or otherwise that this is actually a ship of some kind

you mentioned that it was a wooden structure
do you have any of this wood for analysis
if not why not
what was the outcome of that analysis
where was it published
who peer reviewed it
who sponsored the research

all perfectly valid questions when considering any scientific study

its been a long time since Ive heard this argument maybe you have some new data

cheers
B

ps
that was not really Native American archeology
more like neolithic from Europe and the middle east
although I think I did throw one in there from the Americas just to show the similarities

Native American were more the mound builders and the Hohokam or the Anasazi
who build sites like the temple complex in chaco canyon

[Boston]

if you really want to get mind blown the mammoth bone houses of the Americas and Europe were spectacular




with little else to build with the peoples of the steps and the plains made use of what they had
these bones when covered by skins made quick and warm shelters not unlike the igloo's of the Inuits

Originally Posted by CaptBill

Here are the sonar scans which clearly show the stations/ribs of the site.
Pretty compelling, no?

No, it´s a fake! And the world knows it´s a fake since ages.

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by CaptBill

Here are the sonar scans which clearly show the stations/ribs of the site.

Wow, it even has engine girders!

[alan white]

REgarding the radar scans---- very likely an ancient amusement park site based on an even older Noah's ark theme.
Everything fits. The incredible similarity to the original ark. Except the squarish entrance/ticket booth to the left. The original ark would have lacked that ticket booth.

[CaptBill]

Actually, those are not engine girders.
Those form the "digestive system" so all the animal poop can be shoveled out the stern.

[Boston]

the whole thing is borrowed from an earlier Babylonian mythos

The Chaldean Flood Tablets from the city of Ur in what is now Southern Iraq, describe how the Bablylonian God Ea had decided to eliminate humans and other land animals with a great flood which was to become "the end of all flesh". He selected Ut-Napishtim, to build an ark to save a few humans, and samples of other animals.

The Babylonian text "The Epic of Galgamesh" 1,8 and the Hebrew story are essentially identical with about 20 major points in common. Their texts are obviously linked in some way. Either:
bullet Genesis was copied from an earlier Babylonian story, or
bullet The Galgamesh myth was copied from an earlier Hebrew story, or
bullet Both were copied from a common source that predates them both.

In both the Genesis and Galgamesh stories:
bullet The Genesis story describes how mankind had become obnoxious to God; they were hopelessly sinful and wicked. In the Babylonian story, they were too numerous and noisy.
bullet The Gods (or God) decided to send a worldwide flood. This would drown men, women, children, babies and infants, as well as eliminate all of the land animals and birds.
bullet The Gods (or God) knew of one righteous man, Ut-Napishtim or Noah.
bullet The Gods (or God) ordered the hero to build a multi-story wooden ark (called a chest or box in the original Hebrew).
bullet The ark would be sealed with pitch.
bullet The ark would have with many internal compartments
bullet It would have a single door
bullet It would have at least one window.
bullet The ark was built and loaded with the hero, a few other humans, and samples from all species of other land animals.
bullet A great rain covered the land with water.
bullet The mountains were initially covered with water.
bullet The ark landed on a mountain in the Middle East.
bullet The hero sent out birds at regular intervals to find if any dry land was in the vicinity.
bullet The first two birds returned to the ark. The third bird apparently found dry land because it did not return.
bullet The hero and his family left the ark, ritually killed an animal, offered it as a sacrifice.
bullet God (or the Gods in the Epic of Gilgamesh) smelled the roasted meat of the sacrifice.
bullet The hero was blessed.
bullet The Babylonian gods seemed genuinely sorry for the genocide that they had created. The God of Noah appears to have regretted his actions as well, because he promised never to do it again.

The were a number of differences between the two stories:
bullet Noah received his instructions directly from Jehovah; Ut-Napishtim received them indirectly during a dream.
bullet Noah's ark was 3 stories high and rectangular in shape. Two estimated dimensions are 547 x 91 ft. and 450 x 75 ft. The Babylonian ark was 6 stories high and square.
bullet Ut-Napishtim invited additional people on board: a pilot and some skilled workmen.
bullet Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat; Ut-Napishtim'sat on Mt. Nisir; these locations are both in the Middle East, and are located few hundred miles apart
bullet In the Bible, some of the water emerged from beneath the earth. And the rains from above lasted for 40 days and nights. A 40 day interval often symbolized a period of judgment in the Hebrew Scriptures. 2 In the Babylonian account, the water came only in the form of rain, and lasted only 6 days.
bullet Noah released a raven once and a dove twice; Ut-Napishtim released three birds: a dove, swallow and raven.

The Babylonian tablets which contain the full story of the flood have been dated circa 650 BCE. However, portions of the story have been found on tablets from about 2000 BCE. A study of the language used in the tablets indicates that the story originated much earlier than 2000 BCE. 3 Variations of the original story have been found translated into other ancient languages.

[CaptBill]

Looks like we have some splainin' to do.

What is the oldest boat on earth doing looking like a modern day double ender?
Started this thread thinking she started squareish and "sagged open" to the modern design.
But the more I look at it, LOOKS MORE LIKE NOAH BUILT A MODERN DESIGN?

Whoa!

This is Ron Wyatts work I'm showing. This mans life is amazing. He found so many biblical sites equaly as compelling as the Ark so do visit his site.
http://WyattMuseum.com

[Boston]

equally as compelling does not bode well for the validity of these presumed sites

can you provide any of the requested data concerning this site and any scientific work that has been done to in any way verify it as
wood
a boat
of what age
having held animals
size
shape
construction

real data please including publication and peer reviews as well as citations would be convincing
something from the major journals would also be helpfull
the secular rags are not even remotely unbiased to please lets skip them and go straight to the actual science if there is any

forgive my skepticism but you have done nothing to provide any of the typical information that would be expected if you want to validate this kind of claim

thanks
B

oh
I went to the site you suggested
it is a theological based site that does not provide any detailed analysis of the site nor does it provide any peer reviewed data concerning any evidence found there
it does link to a lab report saying that wood and metal was found on the site however both these materials are common to early human structures

[CaptBill]

Here is the scientific analysis of the rivets, TITANIUM RIVETS

[Boston]

do you have the complete lab analysis you can show us
oh
and I read that section as well
they did not find Titanium per se
but they found trace minerals consistent with the components of Titanium
the only one of which that I find peculiar in a mineral rich area would be aluminum which requires electricity to produce as far as we know the process today
I would also note that the Egyptians also had aluminum which they held more valuable than gold
they ate gold powder by the way
but once again there is nothing to indicate that this site is a ship or that it is old enough (~2400 bc if you buy the Bible story ) to be the ark
it is entirely consistent with neolithic or chalcolithic sites of which there are numerous in this area of the world

[daiquiri]

Let me also anticipate that, should the main engines be retrived, they will almost certainly be of cold-fusion type, maybe with some limited warp-speed capabilities. That will explain the visible warping of the hull.

Though I personally wouldn't exclude even the possibility that hull deformations have been caused by a direct hit from alien laser guns.

[hoytedow]

Algonquin Flood Myth
An Algonquin Legend
The god Michabo was hunting with his pack of trained wolves one day when he saw the strangest sight, the wolves entered a lake and disappeared. He followed them into the water to fetch them and as he did so, the entire world flooded.

Michabo then sent forth a raven to find some soil with which to make a new earth, but the bird returned unsuccessful in its quest.

Then Michabo sent an otter to do the same thing, but again to no avail.

Finally he sent the muskrat and she brought him back enough earth to begin the reconstruction of the world. The trees had lost their branches in the flood, so Michabo shot magic arrows at them that immediately became new branches covered with leaves.

Then Michabo married the muskrat and they became the parents of the human race.

[hoytedow]

The flood on Superstition Mountain
A Pima Legend
In the state of Arizona, the Pima Indian tribe declares that the father of all men and animals was Great Butterfly--Cherwit Make, meaning the Earth- Maker.

One day long ago, Great Butterfly fluttered down from the clouds to the Blue Cliffs, where two rivers met, later called the Verde and Salt rivers. There he made man from his own sweat.

From that day on the people multiplied, but in time they grew selfish and quarrelsome. Earth-Maker became annoyed with their behavior and decided it might be best to drown all of them.

But first, he thought to warn them through the voices of the winds.

"People of the Pima tribe," called North Wind. "Sky Spirit warns you to be honest with one another and to live in peace from now on."

Suha, Shaman of the Pimas, interpreted to the people what North Wind had warned them about.

"What a fool you are, Suha, to listen to the voices of the winds," taunted his tribesmen.

On the next night, the same warning from Earth-Maker was repeated by East Wind, who added, "Chief Sky Spirit warns that all of you will be destroyed by floods if you do not live nobler lives."

Again, the Pimas mocked the winds and ignored their warnings. Next night, West Wind spoke, "Reform, people of the Pimas, or your evil ways will destroy you."

Then South Wind breathed into Suha's ear, "Suha, you and your good wife are the only people worth saving. Go and make a large, hollow ball of spruce gum in which you and your wife can live a long as the coming flood will last."

Because Suha and his wife believed the warnings and were obedient, they set to work immediately on a high hill, gathering spruce gum and shaping it into a large hollow ball. They stocked it with plenty of nuts, acorns, water, and bear and deer meats.

Near the appointed time, Suha and his good wife looked down sadly upon the lovely green valley. They heard the songs of the harvesters. They sighed to think of the beauty about them that would be destroyed when the flood came because of the people's selfishness. Suddenly, a bright lightning flash and loud thunder rocked the Blue Cliffs. It was a signal for the flood to begin.

Suha and his wife went into the gum-ball ark and closed the door tightly. Swirling, dark clouds surrounded them. Torrents of rain poured down everywhere. For many days, the ark rolled and tossed about on the deepening sea.

After many, many moons, the downpour of rain stopped. The ark settled upon the land again, high on a mountaintop. Suha opened the door and stepped forth to see a tuna cactus growing near his feet. He and his wife ate some of the red fruit of the cactus plant. Below them, they saw water everywhere.

That night they retired again to the ark. They must have slept a very long time, because when they awoke the water had disappeared, the valleys were green, and the bird songs rang forth again.

Suha and his wife descended from Superstition Mountain, a name later given to the mountain upon which the ark had landed. They went down into the fertile valley and lived there for a thousand years. The forthcoming people prospered, becoming known as the Pima tribe.

These Pimas later believed a story that an evil one named Hauk lived behind Superstition Mountain. He was also called the "Devil of Superstition Mountain" because he tried to steal daughters from the Pimas.

One day, Hauk secretly descended into Pima valley, where the women were busy weaving. He stole one of Suha's daughters. Suha followed Hauk to his home behind Superstition Mountain, where he observed his daughter treated as a servant-girl by Hauk.

Suha poisoned the cactus wine that his daughter served Hauk. When he drank it, Hauk died instantly. After that the world seemed less wicked, but always the Pimas feared that Hauk's evil spirit still lurked behind Superstition Mountain.

Suha, Shaman and inspired leader of the Pima tribe, taught his people to build adobe houses, to dig gardens with bones and stones, to irrigate their lands from the rivers; to raise sheep, horses, and cattle, and, above all, to live in peace with one another.

On his dying day, Suha gathered his people and foretold:

"If you ever grow arrogant with wealth, if you ever become covetous of others' lands, if you ever make war for gain, if you ever disgrace yourselves before Chief of the Sky Spirits--another flood will come upon you.

"If that happens again, bad persons will never be saved; only good persons will eventually live with the Sun-God."

Since that time, Pimas have believed Suha's prophecies; and they never, never go onto Superstition Mountain.

But their people love to tell the story of why and how the gum- ball ark landed on Superstition Mountain, saving Suha and his good wife, who became the beloved ancestors of their large and important Pima Tribe.