New website about boat building in Asia

[Neven]

ProMaritim provides information about boat building in South-East-Asia, namely Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. This site is a must for people who intend to build a boat in this region.
http://www.promaritim.com

must everything be built in china? we will soon not be able to buy a boat if we do not wise up and start buying USA. screw the china boat builder!!!!

[Neven]

Dear Ronald,

If one wants to save an average 20% on the boat price and in some cases till 100% with often better quality one may consider building in Asia. If one wants to help the US economy one should build in the US. I’m not a nationalist and also not American, and many others aren’t either!

Regards

[mmd]

Calm down, Ronald. I understand your desire to keep your boatbuilding industry in America competitive, but there is no reason to be impolite here on this nice forum. Mr. Neven has as much right to promote boatbuilding in his region as we do in ours. You have every right to not buy his product if you wish to support USA boatbuilders.

[Neven]

That’s totally right! But I do not mind Ronald being impolite. He just should understand that if other countries are only supplying raw materials to America, they will not be in the position to buy American products! Much equipment for yachts is normally supplied from the US, so if the other countries have not the means to buy it, your economy will also get stuck! It is a take and give, or an exchange and flow of energies!

By the way, we are living here in Asia, but most of our supervisors are Europeans, I myself being from Germany. And I just want to give you a little example of the cost effectiveness here in Asia: schooners like this Brigantine on the picture cost more than a 100% less when build here in Asia under the supervision of our English marine superintendent in a better quality than in the US! Nonetheless many items like fastenings or rig wire will come from the US.

We can take much more care of the details because we can afford the workers to do it properly. We are much more flexible and do not choose only Chinese yards but the place which is most suitable for each project. Sometimes we switch the locations during the building process. And then, we do not want to boast but it is true, we have one of the best artists in boatbuilding!!! In his own words:

Simply put, please understand that my work is highly accurate and exactly sympathetic to the particular period, designer and national 'style' required in design, proportion, material, construction technique and finish. It simply feels, even smells, 'right'. My shipwrighting, cabinetry and components usually go unnoticed as they are often assumed to be the original.

Others and I have seen lots of them, look and feel 'modernized' and fake, often having a complete lack of true line, beauty or proportion. They are clumsy in construction, in unselected timbers, with odd looking 'tack on' detailing, incorrectly proportioned and joined and usually using many incorrect materials such as, for example, stainless steel, plywood and polyurethane.

I came by my particular 'feel' for this as a combined result of having, both, a passionate interest in everything engineering and 'boat' along with the rather odd advantage of having been conceived, born and brought up on two great schooners (one being 'Monarch') and in a dilapidated Irish Georgian mansion. I was literally 'soaked' in perfect proportion and great architecture, furniture, paneling, shipwrighting, yacht design and cabinetry from birth. Anyway, I soaked it up and Georgian, Edwardian, Victorian, Shaker, Puritan or Colonial; I know it, I can think in it, I can design in it exactly and I can teach it.

References: I assume an American would appreciate 'live' American references. Mr and Mrs Henry Becton, the original family owners of 'So Fong', who saw her when we crossed paths one time in Marmaris, would support any enquiry about my work. He and his wife came aboard and she broke into tears when she saw the detailed accuracy of the restoration we had achieved. So Fong is a boat she has known all her life as she was her summer home!
Some kids have tree houses. The Becton's and the Rockerfeller's kids used 'So Fong' as their childhood 'fort' when she was moored in front of their cottage in Blue Hill in Maine.

Also, Capt.James (Tim) Willis, a Texas born 'near retirement' seaman with U.S. Lykes Lines, and a very knowledgeable vintage ship enthusiast was livid at my treatment by the owner at the end of the Moonbeam restoration. He had watched it in detail, and he would, I know, do anything reasonable to support me into another worthwhile vintage build. He knows the 'network' on the East Coast quite well and is undoubted.

Regards

Hi, Neven,

Tried to open the recommended website but failed.

I am located in China and have been selling boats into U.S.A and Europe for about 3 years. I also had a similar debate with a guy here about building boats in China and you can take a look at: http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3243

Love to be your friends if you do not mind.

Yours truly

George

[Neven]

Dear George,

Thanks for contacting me. Do not know why the website did not work but you can try www.promaritime.com as well.

If you are specialized on China, very well! We have currently a customer there who wants to build a Gartside cutter. Maybe you would like to contact me at neven@promaritim.com?

Regards

[betelgeuserdude]

Hey George. Evidently we stopped having any kind of "debate", as you have failed to respond to my last post.

To be honest, I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it seems that when you are posed with serious questions, to which you should be well positioned to respond, you vanish.

I won't continue our debate here, but would enjoy reading your response on the thread you started.

DC

[danmarine]

Hi all,
Please excuse me taking advantage of this discussion but I would like add the list below which may be of assistance to some of those seeking advice on asian boatbuilding.
Until recently I was sceptical of asian quality in the marine industry but having operated a project management company here for the last four years, I can say that International quality is possible to achive and with the right help you can save money. However for most of the boat owners here, priorities other than cost will encourage them to build here. I think everyone knows that you get what you pay for, so dont be tempted to start projects which can not be finished, especially if working as a visitor too a country as the law is aimed at protecting the local population and industry.
Please look up any of the sites below and I hope you will find that asia can offer a professional attitude to boating.
danmarinephuket@hotmail.com

www.thaimarine.com yacht brokers, charter agents,“builders of composite, high speed power catamarans”
www.thaiteakmarine.com Bangkok supplier of finished teak products, kits and other yacht fittings.
www.geocities.com/hansboat/ manufacturer of ribs and dinghys repairs and new build, service of life rafts.
www.asian-sailing.com builders of the Phuket 8 mono-hull, and other multi-hull designs
www.pegasusmarine.com Builders of fiberglass speed boats and outboard motor sales and repairs. Couldn’t find website but worth trying.
www.phuketwatertaxi.com builders of quality 100% fiberglass boats.
www.electrical-marine.com supply and service of marine electronics.
www.phuketsail.com charters, marine products and services in Thailand.
www.octopussasia.com I cant access but worth finding, probably the best marine electrician in Thailand.
www.phuketmarine.com marine consultancy
www.phuketmarine.4t.com marine electronics supply and service by local.
e-mail; solidair@loxinfo.co.th Kevin is a specialist is excellent paint, fiberglass repairs.
e-mail; firstvision1@hotmail.com specialist wood and fiberglass repairs to international standards
www.leemarine.com yacht brokers.
www.yachtsolutions.net yacht agents. Charter, delivery,management,repair. Good.
www.siamcoolingsystem.com refridgeration, air-conditioning, water makers, seawater pumps.
www.yacht-haven-phuket.com 158 berths
www.royalphuketmarina.com nearing completion.
www.phuket-marine-guide.com publication with comprehensive directory and information.
www.phuketgazette.net local newspaper in English.
www.precision-shipwright.com spray painting and boat repairs, excellent quality by international standards.
Events.
www.phuketraceweek.com racing and events.10-17 july
www.phuketboatshow.com Thailands annual international boatshow. Dec
www.kingscup.com Asias leading sailing event. First week of Dec
www.*******searally.com early Jan

[corrie]

Originally Posted by ronald thomas

must everything be built in china? we will soon not be able to buy a boat if we do not wise up and start buying USA. screw the china boat builder!!!!

Yes, I am not Chinese - but I work a lot in that country and with Chinese. What would happen if you ask Americans to work 10 hours per day, 7 days per week, 340 days per year - non stop but for 2x 15 minutes tea and 1x30 minute lunch. Then you still have the pleasure of working with well educated and qualified people who are not scared of really hard work - even with degrees! For me - China is best and even the quality of things (including boats) from China is now surpasing other places in the world.
Yet - the best is stil the prices that are on average 40% cheaper than same boat from same company manufactured elsewhere.

[woody]

I am an American and proud of it.There is a simple answer to everything going overseas.We should impose a High Tariff on imported MANUFACTERED goods.Things that cannot be obtained over here should be exempt.
That way if companys want to sell there products over here they would be cheaper to manufactuer them over here.
Government should not allow companies to profit from sending jobs overseas .The cost of living is much more over here in USA so it is not fair to compare wages of chinease and Americans.
This may sound old fashoned but AMERICA should be for AMERICANS.No one else should be welcome.
By the way,after they steal our jobs,what is the first place those backwards countrys call to when they get into trouble and they need help.The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Why don`t you think about that while you are rolling in profits that were stolen from this countrys workers.Companys that send jobs overseas are Traitors and should be treated like it.
GOD BLESS AMERICA

[danmarine]

Dear Woody,

Are you serious?

I have sat for a few minutes trying to formulate a response…then figured it was hardly worthy of one. The thing is that your point is more political than boat related.

While democracy still reins in the US the rest of the world is happy to follow, and Americans should be proud that they are known as the leaders of the free world.

However by closing your borders and imposing tariffs which would exclude foreign import/export, you would become the leader of nothing. The United States of Europe would be more than happy to assume the role as world leaders, and America can slowly regress to the levels of technology which prevailed before ‘foreigners’ ventured to your shores.

There you have it the rise and fall of the American Empire in less time than it takes you to have a coffee…

Dan

Originally Posted by ronald thomas

must everything be built in china? we will soon not be able to buy a boat if we do not wise up and start buying USA. screw the china boat builder!!!!

Well said Buddy..... I am in the EU... when I say something like that re.. any other subject I am called racist.....

I think we have the right attetude to life... they want us to keep cool untill the **** hits the fan and then... its up to us to tectify things again....

Well done
Manuel

[WantBoat]

All this China hyping and China bashing has me curious. Do people see something entirely different than I do? Oh wait... I have just answered my own quesiton.


Okay, myth one. Chinese people are evil commies and hate us. BS, when I was there they were quite nice and many treated me (an American) like a star - which was odd feeling for sure. There were the odd ducks who did not, but over all people where more friendly then here in the states. This does not mean our respective governments will see eye to eye of course.


Myth two, Chinese work harder than we do. Maybe in some professions. But as far as I could see it is not that close on average. Sure, they work 10 hour days, but overall they were not working near as hard or fast as the people I am used to working with here in the states.

Culturally things just seem much slower, even in the big cities, and for sure in the small ones. I remember hearing on NPR that the US worker now has the longest effective hours in the world, more so than even in Japan. Having been private sector in the computer field for a number of years before going back to teach recently, I can believe it.


Myth three and four. Chinese build great stuff, Chinese stuff stinks... Both are false, and also true. It all depends on who or what we are talking about. And this is the trouble. Not even the natives can tell the difference on some products, which is why most natives still prefer to purchase Korean, Japanese or American electronics and consumer items.

Of course that in itself causes issues. For example, you had to be somewhat careful when buying 'foreign' name brand shampoo because there were people whom would scam you and sell you the bottle with some home brew subsitute inside.

In general, Chinese are as capable of doing fine work as well as shoddy work - Pretty much like anyone else. BUT it is true that your recourse to a bad deal is very limited in China. Buyer beware, definelty assumes a much larger focus then it does here IMHO.

As far as government? Well actually, most government functionaries I spoke with were all friendly and tried to be helpful, although one was rude to my wife (who is Chinese) - thinking she was a transaltor or ah ahem , anyway you get the point...

I do not really hold it agaisnt him too much as culturally things are different in China post Mao (and because I had no clue what he was saying!). As my wife says, Chinese believe with there eyes and not with their ears. Tell them anything you want and they will still look for proof. I guess it comes comes from living in a society where a lot of offical messages are pure PR / face saving and bare little resemblance to reality.

As to effectiveness of the govenrment? Pretty 'effective' at controling over all offical information flow, but a beaurocratic nightmare as far as getting anything done. While all but one offical was quite friendly, the same can not be said about effectivness. Just getting them to figure out who was actually in charge of what for investigating creating a joint venture was an excerise in circles. I guess the society that pretty much invented beaurocracy would tend to be 'good' at it after all this time.

So, would I build a boat there? Hmm... Maybe. A lot depends on what deal and what relationships I could work out. Having family there now helps somewhat, becuase family and relationships are very, very important in business there. Maybe if I could arrange a kind of escrow agreement (just like building a house) with payments given out over X stages after a surveyer flew in to look at completion of each stage. I would also need to consider job issues as well, after all money that stays in country helps me out eventually, even if I pay it someone else. But, money that leaves the country generally does not do so.