The nanny state - Licences and registration

[jamesgyore]

Good morning everyone,

I've spent a few hours online looking at licence and registration requirements for small yachts in Australia... It's as clear as mud to me.

Most Australian states seem to have similar laws and regulations but ludicrously varying costs, NT on the other hand has no licence and small vessel registration requirements for the time being.

I'm sick of being taxed, levied, charged, tolled, and then fined for petty things designed specifically to increase general state revenue.

Victoria (au) would have to be the most highly regulated place on earth (am I living in an eastern block nation post cold war). Where else can you get a fine for smoking while walking down a suburban street?

I'm sure others far smarter than I have researched ways to avoid licence and registration requirements as boat owners and operators.

I have a seriously splintered tomato stake up my arse about having to pay the state for the right to build and operate a small yacht.

Any thoughts about how I can beat "the system"?

[mydauphin]

Find out what the taxes are for a visiting yacht... They may be larger. But first I would call it a Boat not a Yacht. You should be able to get discount for that.

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

Good morning everyone,

I've spent a few hours online looking at licence and registration requirements for small yachts in Australia... It's as clear as mud to me.

Most Australian states seem to have similar laws and regulations but ludicrously varying costs, NT on the other hand has no licence and small vessel registration requirements for the time being.

I'm sick of being taxed, levied, charged, tolled, and then fined for petty things designed specifically to increase general state revenue.

Victoria (au) would have to be the most highly regulated place on earth (am I living in an eastern block nation post cold war). Where else can you get a fine for smoking while walking down a suburban street?

I'm sure others far smarter than I have researched ways to avoid licence and registration requirements as boat owners and operators.

I have a seriously splintered tomato stake up my arse about having to pay the state for the right to build and operate a small yacht.

Any thoughts about how I can beat "the system"?

Can't help on the boat front (yet) but WRT licences - I swapped my NSW licence for a Tasmanian one. Approx 1/3 the cost. As I own property in both states, my residential address is what I say it is.

I'm looking forward to getting the boat in the water, at which point my address is going to be my boat name & mooring plus a PO Box. Good luck in physically tracking me down...

PDW

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by pdwiley

Can't help on the boat front (yet) but WRT licences - I swapped my NSW licence for a Tasmanian one. Approx 1/3 the cost. As I own property in both states, my residential address is what I say it is.

I'm looking forward to getting the boat in the water, at which point my address is going to be my boat name & mooring plus a PO Box. Good luck in physically tracking me down...

PDW

Sadly, over-taxation and over-regulation are pandemic symptoms of the world as we not so slowly slide into a state of serfdom. Just moments ago I heard an article broadcast that the U.S. Congress will likely pass legislation requiring "black boxes" in our road vehicles that would track our driving habits. Having your own vehicle testify against you is just wrong.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/u-...-cars-by-2015/

[whitepointer23]

if you don't use an engine in victoria you don't have to pay rego or have a skippers ticket. its the only way to avoid these fees but not very practical for getting in and out of berths. the boat rego is $73.90 per year which is not too bad. if you need a boat license you better do it now. at the moment you can get your license for around $100 but after june 30 they are talking about making it $850 plus that again for a pwc endorsement. i agree completely james, i really miss w.a and the freedom i had compared to here in vic. the baileu government are the biggest pack of a.r.s.e.holes ever to run a state.

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by whitepointer23

if you don't use an engine in victoria you don't have to pay rego or have a skippers ticket. its the only way to avoid these fees but not very practical for getting in and out of berths. the boat rego is $73.90 per year which is not too bad. if you need a boat license you better do it now. at the moment you can get your license for around $100 but after june 30 they are talking about making it $850 plus that again for a pwc endorsement. i agree completely james, i really miss w.a and the freedom i had compared to here in vic. the baileu government are the biggest pack of a.r.s.e.holes ever to run a state.

I agree that the boat licence is overpriced but I'd like to see another zero added to the cost of PWC licences. Along with automatic self-destruct of the engine if operated over 4 knots within 100m of a shoreline.

I disagreed vehemently with a lot of things Bob Carr did when premier of NSW, one of the few exceptions being his banning PWC from Sydney Harbour. He didn't go far enough.

Yeah, yeah, I know the story - only a small percentage of users abuse the things etc etc. It's like riding trail bikes in public spaces, obnoxious and abusive of the rights to peaceful enjoyment of the same space by others.

Anyway my Tasmanian boat licence is pretty cheap compared to NSW.

PDW

[rwatson]

I cant believe this thread. Is $150 a year considered 'a lot' ?

Most large boat owners spend that each trip - on fuel, broken gear ,and general maintenance - not to mention dock fees etc

You cant walk in and out of chandlery for under $200.

Don't forget, part of the reason for fees is to keep track of the ratbags that abuse the environment and navigation rules, provide navigation aids, launching ramps, jetties etc etc

What is the gubberment supposed to provide all these services with if it isn't money ???

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by rwatson

I cant believe this thread. Is $150 a year considered 'a lot' ?

Most large boat owners spend that each trip - on fuel, broken gear ,and general maintenance - not to mention dock fees etc

You cant walk in and out of chandlery for under $200.

Don't forget, part of the reason for fees is to keep track of the ratbags that abuse the environment and navigation rules, provide navigation aids, launching ramps, jetties etc etc

What is the gubberment supposed to provide all these services with if it isn't money ???

Here's one inside the budget & noooooo regooooo tooooo http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/canoe-kay...item20c4e3838d but don't get busted without a jacket............... look there's more............... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canoe-/18...item2a1c81998b All ya gotta be is a canoooo paddler & save

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by pdwiley

I agree that the boat licence is overpriced but I'd like to see another zero added to the cost of PWC licences. Along with automatic self-destruct of the engine if operated over 4 knots within 100m of a shoreline.

I disagreed vehemently with a lot of things Bob Carr did when premier of NSW, one of the few exceptions being his banning PWC from Sydney Harbour. He didn't go far enough.

Yeah, yeah, I know the story - only a small percentage of users abuse the things etc etc. It's like riding trail bikes in public spaces, obnoxious and abusive of the rights to peaceful enjoyment of the same space by others.

Anyway my Tasmanian boat licence is pretty cheap compared to NSW.

PDW

i agree with you on the jetski's, on the lakes here at christmas we get hundreds of them and about 1 in 10 that obey the rules. i can't use the words i have for them on the forum.

[mydauphin]

Be careful with taxes for pwc, if they get that then later they will use same excuse to go after bigger boats.

[jamesgyore]

Originally Posted by rwatson

What is the gubberment supposed to provide all these services with if it isn't money ???

I don't think you quite understand that our state government have taxes, fees and charges for EVERYTHING.

Our local city councils do to. A small green waste bin in my area would increase my rates by $495.00 per year. If I had a water tank, that too would add many hundreds to my rates, as would a carport or a pagoda. The list is endless and expensive.

To drive across Melbourne, you'll probably use our major road network and have to pay outrageous tolls to the Japanese that own it.

You'll probably get picked off by the not quite reliable speed cameras that exist everywhere. Fines issued by machines that identify parked cars as exceeding the speed limit.

Our public transport system is one of the worst and most expensive, also foreign owned.

As for boat operators licences, there are about to skyrocket in price, yet the state government is not developing the bay. If anything they actively discourage marina developments and other bay-side infrastructure.

I'll have to wait for a boat to sink or someone to die before I could get a birth on an ongoing rental basis. If I was lucky enough to find one, I'd hit bottom at low tide because dredging is usually not approved.

Victorians are leaving the state in large numbers, and I'm not surprised. My partner and I have discussed doing the same.

[Petros]

If you are looking for something large enough to live aboard you might be out of luck. In the United states it varies quite a bit from state to state. Where I live if it is under 16' and less than 10hp, no reregistration required, in other states anything over 8' needs license, inspections, etc. that really adds up. some states do not require license for anything without a motor, not a bad deal if you have a sailboat.

You might look at what nearby jurisdictions require for different sizes and go with the least costly one. I am considering building a 16' sailboat with cabin big enough for short overnight trips, store at home on trailer, no license on the boat.

[rwatson]

Thanks James - I love to put on my ranting hat first thing after breakfast, us old farts just love it

here goes ......

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

I don't think you quite understand that our state government have taxes, fees and charges for EVERYTHING.

Oh gawd - its a rant about LIFE ??? I thought this was a boating forum.

Move to Greece, or Spain or anywhere in southeast asia, then get back on here and talk about the expensive "Austraylyar".

I understand perfectly - I live here, and I love the quality of live our common-wealth provides.

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

Our local city councils do to. A small green waste bin in my area would increase my rates by $495.00 per year. If I had a water tank, that too would add many hundreds to my rates, as would a carport or a pagoda. The list is endless and expensive.

Well, dont buy one then !!! I have never heard of a water tank raising rates - let alone by $100;s

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

To drive across Melbourne, you'll probably use our major road network and have to pay outrageous tolls to the Japanese that own it.

I know all about Melbourne - I lived there for 25 years till I moved to the old age retirement state - Tasmania. Outrageous tolls ???? You pay $6 to travel 35 kilometres of world class highway to avoid over 50 stop signs, and over 70 interstection. You probably save that much on fuel and brakes each trip.

The reason the Japanese own the roads is they have the money and the engineers. Get used to it - you live in a country with 20 million people - Osaka alone has more people than that.

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

You'll probably get picked off by the not quite reliable speed cameras that exist everywhere. Fines issued by machines that identify parked cars as exceeding the speed limit.

They are as reliable as they can be made - and I wouldnt be without them - I have had my run-ins with the mad drivers on the Monash from little red bullets driven by blondes on mobile phones to B Double trailers pushing me along by my exhaust pipe. I would go for more cameras, and police patrols if I got elected. Try taking your foot off the pedal, and you wont get caught.

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

Our public transport system is one of the worst and most expensive, also foreign owned.

Dear or dear - you are a poor little possum have you been pushed onto a train by guards so packed that your feet don't touch the floor - and this could be Tokyo or the London Underground. Expensive ?????? A zone two all day is what $6.00 ?? You couldn't buy lunch for that, and this gets you all the way across the city, twice.

If you wait an hour after work - you will always get a seat home on a train. Try that in India.

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

As for boat operators licences, there are about to skyrocket in price, yet the state government is not developing the bay. If anything they actively discourage marina developments and other bay-side infrastructure..

Skyrocket ??? Currently a five year full licence is $178.50 - that's less than $1 per day. If it went to $1.50 per day, it would be cheap. If it discourages you from getting on the water - goooood !!! There are too many people there at the launching ramp on a fine day already.

Boats are a L-U-X-U-R-Y , get it !!!!

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

I'll have to wait for a boat to sink or someone to die before I could get a birth on an ongoing rental basis. If I was lucky enough to find one, I'd hit bottom at low tide because dredging is usually not approved..

Gore blimey - you have 3 million people living around a small bay that has to cater for over .25 million boat users. What do you expect ????? And as for discouraging marinas and docks - GREEEAAATTT !!!!! There are way to many of them now.

The message is get off the bay !!!! Its too overused already. !

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

Victorians are leaving the state in large numbers, and I'm not surprised. My partner and I have discussed doing the same

That's you option - you live in a free country. There are 40 million people two thousand miles away that would sell their firstborn into slavery to move to take your place. A lot of them have made it already if you look around you on the train.

I won't tell you to move to Tasmania - you wouldn't fit in with such a self pitying point of view.

So there

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by jamesgyore

I don't think you quite understand that our state government have taxes, fees and charges for EVERYTHING.

Our local city councils do to. A small green waste bin in my area would increase my rates by $495.00 per year. If I had a water tank, that too would add many hundreds to my rates, as would a carport or a pagoda. The list is endless and expensive.

To drive across Melbourne, you'll probably use our major road network and have to pay outrageous tolls to the Japanese that own it.

You'll probably get picked off by the not quite reliable speed cameras that exist everywhere. Fines issued by machines that identify parked cars as exceeding the speed limit.

Our public transport system is one of the worst and most expensive, also foreign owned.

As for boat operators licences, there are about to skyrocket in price, yet the state government is not developing the bay. If anything they actively discourage marina developments and other bay-side infrastructure.

I'll have to wait for a boat to sink or someone to die before I could get a birth on an ongoing rental basis. If I was lucky enough to find one, I'd hit bottom at low tide because dredging is usually not approved.

Victorians are leaving the state in large numbers, and I'm not surprised. My partner and I have discussed doing the same.

Move, but not to here, please. I'm a life member of the NIMBY group. AKA 'I've got mine, sod off somewhere else.'

In all seriousness though, I'd move. In fact, I did. Here, if you buy rural land you get little or no services but *generally* you also don't get too badly gouged on rates, and provided you act as a good neighbour, yours reciprocate. I don't run noisy power tools at night, for example, but during the day is fine - others are running tractors, chain saws etc so nobody gets fussed about an angle grinder or air compressor. I even told the truth when putting in for building permission for my shed - it's 2X the size of my house. Council didn't care, there are bigger farm sheds around.

I have a mooring out the front of my house. It costs me $60 pa as the lease fee. Except for a few popular spots, putting one in doesn't seem too difficult and they change hands at prices ranging from $1000 to $4000 or so depending on location.

On Melbourne tolls, driving on those roads in an interstate plated 4WD truck with dirty/obscured number plates seems to work. Has for me, so far. Even when I was living back in Sydney for a while, I kept my vehicle registered in Tas. Cheaper registration and no annual inspection, you see.

If you do move here, please don't be a typical urbanite and start bitching about all the stuff that's missing and want to change everything. You can always hop a plane back to Melbourne for the weekend if you want to re-experience the nanny state in action.

(PS rwatson - I avoid chandlers, it's cheaper to shop at the industrial suppliers as a rule. I even got out of Nubco for only $100 yesterday)

PDW

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by rwatson

Thanks James - I love to put on my ranting hat first thing after breakfast, us old farts just love it

here goes ......




Oh gawd - its a rant about LIFE ??? I thought this was a boating forum.

Move to Greece, or Spain or anywhere in southeast asia, then get back on here and talk about the expensive "Austraylyar".

I understand perfectly - I live here, and I love the quality of live our common-wealth provides.



Well, dont buy one then !!! I have never heard of a water tank raising rates - let alone by $100;s



I know all about Melbourne - I lived there for 25 years till I moved to the old age retirement state - Tasmania. Outrageous tolls ???? You pay $6 to travel 35 kilometres of world class highway to avoid over 50 stop signs, and over 70 interstection. You probably save that much on fuel and brakes each trip.

The reason the Japanese own the roads is they have the money and the engineers. Get used to it - you live in a country with 20 million people - Osaka alone has more people than that.



They are as reliable as they can be made - and I wouldnt be without them - I have had my run-ins with the mad drivers on the Monash from little red bullets driven by blondes on mobile phones to B Double trailers pushing me along by my exhaust pipe. I would go for more cameras, and police patrols if I got elected. Try taking your foot off the pedal, and you wont get caught.



Dear or dear - you are a poor little possum have you been pushed onto a train by guards so packed that your feet don't touch the floor - and this could be Tokyo or the London Underground. Expensive ?????? A zone two all day is what $6.00 ?? You couldn't buy lunch for that, and this gets you all the way across the city, twice.

If you wait an hour after work - you will always get a seat home on a train. Try that in India.



Skyrocket ??? Currently a five year full licence is $178.50 - that's less than $1 per day. If it went to $1.50 per day, it would be cheap. If it discourages you from getting on the water - goooood !!! There are too many people there at the launching ramp on a fine day already.

Boats are a L-U-X-U-R-Y , get it !!!!




Gore blimey - you have 3 million people living around a small bay that has to cater for over .25 million boat users. What do you expect ????? And as for discouraging marinas and docks - GREEEAAATTT !!!!! There are way to many of them now.

The message is get off the bay !!!! Its too overused already. !





That's you option - you live in a free country. There are 40 million people two thousand miles away that would sell their firstborn into slavery to move to take your place. A lot of them have made it already if you look around you on the train.

I won't tell you to move to Tasmania - you wouldn't fit in with such a self pitying point of view.

So there

i am glad you aren't running the country. you are the first person i have heard of that enjoys paying government charges and revenue raising fines.