My son in the Army

[gonzo]

When you post on a public forum there will be a lot of opinions you won't like. I think a lot of people that refused to go to war have defended my rights more than the ones that went along, for whatever reason, with the system.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by gonzo

When you post on a public forum there will be a lot of opinions you won't like. I think a lot of people that refused to go to war have defended my rights more than the ones that went along, for whatever reason, with the system.

OK, you posted an opinion. And I gave you a civil response. If you want to to continue expounding on the evils of war, I suggest you go start your own thread.

[gonzo]

And I gave you a civil opinion. As long as it is related to the post I think it is OK to keep on disagreeing.

[Ike]

Gonzo. When you join the military you take an oath to support and defend the constitution. The constitution puts civilians in charge not the military. So yes, you are saying you will fight for political reasons or economic reasons or whatever our President or Congress decides is important enough to fight for. If you can't take the oath in good faith then don't join.

I don't believe in a draft. I believe very strongly in a volunteer armed forces. I also believe that not everyone is suited to life in the military because when you join you give up a lot of your personal freedom so that others may keep theirs. That is why you can be free to speak your mind without some jack boot breaking down your door.

That is also why it is critically important that everyone votes and gets involved with what is going on. Far too many say their vote doesn't count and so they don't. That is dead wrong. When that happens we get people like George Bush running the country.

Also, having served and known thousands who have served, some who have died for this country, I find it offensive that your remark implies they died in vain. I agree that we should not go to war over oil or some other such stupid reason. I opposed going to war in Iraq, but I took the oath and if recalled I would go. It is a matter of honor and duty. I and my three brothers all served, two army, one air force and me, USCG. Two of us are career and now retired. Two served in Vietnam. All served honorably.

It is Memorial day and we should eb putting aside for one day our politacal differences and honoring those who have given their lives so that we may be free.

[capt littlelegs]

Originally Posted by gonzo

And I gave you a civil opinion. As long as it is related to the post I think it is OK to keep on disagreeing.

I'd just like to mention that the 26th of this month (May) seventy years ago was the day my grandfather at the age of 31 was killed defending the line near Dunkirk the day before the evacuation started. He doesn't have a known grave but is remembered on the Dunkirk Memorial that I visited last week. I don't think those soldiers really had a choice but to go to war but those that do make that choice these days risk their lives to keep safe the others and their freedom to consider morals.

[gonzo]

Ike: Yours is the common response of the pro-war, rah rah, proponents. Also, the assumption that I have not seen war first hand. If you find offensive that people die in vain, you should be very careful about putting them in harm's way. Also, most people don't want their rights shoved down their throats with a rifle. The military, of any nation, are organized to force others to do what they wouldn't otherwise. Most of the rethoric is window dressing to cover the real reasons for military action.

[capt littlelegs]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Ike: Yours is the common response of the pro-war, rah rah, proponents. Also, the assumption that I have not seen war first hand. If you find offensive that people die in vain, you should be very careful about putting them in harm's way. Also, most people don't want their rights shoved down their throats with a rifle. The military, of any nation, are organized to force others to do what they wouldn't otherwise. Most of the rethoric is window dressing to cover the real reasons for military action.

We have a cynic in our midst. I served six years, never once did I ever rah rah, shove anyone rights down their throat or force anyone. But I did help to defend and protect people and keep the peace, that of course often requires putting people in harms way. I'd still do it for you Gonzo any day but don't assume all armies are the agressors.

[gonzo]

I am not a cynic, but a first hand witness of what war can do.

[capt littlelegs]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I am not a cynic, but a first hand witness of what war can do.

And you think that we can all stop it by hold up our hands and then get kicked around by some country that does not share your views? Starting wars is very stupid I agree but sometimes you have to fight to keep your freedom if you can't avoid it and you need soldiers for that.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I am not a cynic, but a first hand witness of what war can do.

there comes a time when one must stand up and fight, win or loose is not the question, its a simple mater of dignity.

in circumstances where genocide is being perpetrated against a peoples its an absolute must

I am reminded of a letter I once read concerning the NEz-Pierce Dreamers and the battle of white bird canyon. It is a sad testimony to the fate of any people that thy are forced to fight by another but in the end there are times when killing is the only way

I agree with Troy
both with his reaction to his son taking on such a dangerous position
and in his pride that his son believes in what he is doing sufficiently to place himself in such a position

my own personal beliefs concerning the political aspects of this particular war are not particularly of any great import to a father expressing concern for his son

I wish you the best
and good health to your boy

I believe we must be brave for them

B

[gonzo]

There is not a single answer to the problem. However, some people advocate a military action to any problem. Even when there is no problem, they create one so there can be a military action. History shows that such is the case. Personal concerns over his son are absolutely acceptable. I disagree with the role the military play and on how they justify it with nationalistic platitudes.

[troy2000]

Apparently, this forum has no way for the originator of a thread to delete it. Otherwise I would do so.

I find it offensive and unforgivably rude of gonzo to hijack a thread in honor of my son's decision to join the Army, and turn it into a polemic against the military instead.

Gonzo: you have no manners, no sense of propriety, and obviously no shame. Next thing we know, you'll be out waving your sign beside Fred Phelps and his family at military funerals, and screaming at grieving parents that their children died in vain.

Please don't tell me again you have a "right" to piss on my son's decision, just because this is a public forum. The fact that something is allowed hardly makes it acceptable.

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by troy2000

OK, you posted an opinion. And I gave you a civil response. If you want to to continue expounding on the evils of war, I suggest you go start your own thread.

You know what is worse than war? Slavery.

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by gonzo

There is not a single answer to the problem. However, some people advocate a military action to any problem. Even when there is no problem, they create one so there can be a military action. History shows that such is the case. Personal concerns over his son are absolutely acceptable. I disagree with the role the military play and on how they justify it with nationalistic platitudes.

You continue to enjoy the freedom to hold this opinion because people went to war to defend your right to it.