My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

[fasteddy106]

Wardd, it is hard to believe anyone can be so thick and myopic and still breathe with any success. Socialism and communism don't work, period. All they do is promote class warfare to get left wing politicians elected and pander to poor and lazy and foolish elitists with too much time on their hands. That you are a small businessman is hard to believe. Where did you get the chip on your shoulder about capitalism. You are mouthing all the left wing effluent that has come down the pipe for the last 50 years. Why are you even a member of a boating forum. Aren't boats just a rich mans affectation to you?

When medicare is abolished to continue tranferring money to Il Duce Obamas minions it will be too late for you to wake up. Try to do so now while you can still be charge of your own destiny.

[wardd]

fast, im a self employed small businessman with health problems, i cant get health insurance no way no how

im open to your suggestions

hey , how about a public option that wont discriminate against me?

am i supposed to suffer for your ideological purity?

thanks but no thanks

Cigna CEO Ed Hanway, for earning a reported $73 million golden parachute upon retirement.

"Ed makes more in one day, than the average worker makes all year long,"

Now Ed's retiring with a seventy-three-million-dollar golden parachute. The Republican prescription for the health insurance crisis -- be as rich as Ed ... you'll be happy too."

[fasteddy106]

So what you are saying Wardd is that me and others who are in good health have to subsidize you, regardless of the cause of your ill health, which I am sorry to hear about it, sincerely. Idealogical purity has nothing to do with it. It's fairness that's involved. You cannot be denied medical treatment, you just aren't entitled to the same treatment as those who can pay for it. Insurance is a pooled risk venture. In private hands, it can make money, no apologies. In public hands, it is designed to be a equalization of misery and mediocrity, that's the governments idea of fairness. Take from those who produce, and share equally among all that do not, regardless if they are overweight, alcoholic, have a 2 pack a day habit, and mainline drugs. Sorry, I find that unfair. You are going on medicare soon, much of your medical issues will be taken care of. Rightly so you will be responsible for the so called medigap, whether it be through insurance or an adjustment in your lifestyle to pay for the medical care. Medical care is not a right, regardless of how in vogue we want that to be. The short sighted thinking that wants to portray medical care as a right is what got our health care system in trouble to start with. Malpractice has been redifined to include acts of God, and jury awards are ridiculous and liberal democrats fight tort reform as if it were there last gasp.

I hope your medical problems do not bankrupt you, and I hope your thinking does not bankrupt our economy

[uncleralph]

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margaret Thatcher

[wardd]

well fast , i would seem that most people in this country are on my side of the issue and last i knew this is still a democracy

hey , if you dont like it you can always move to canada or darfar, i dont think darfar has medical care yet

or why do you hate this country?

[SaltOntheBrain]

Wardd, it's none of your damn business how much I make. (Not much, though) I am still able to afford health care by being frugal in other areas.

I am against this plan because it is stealing and the people voting for it are theives. Plain and simple.

You constantly quote problems with our system, but offer no solutions to fix the problems. You just blindly follow someone who offers you someone else's money. Any new national health care plan will be worse than what we have for those who already have insurance. It will only be an improvement for the ones who don't pay anything.

We offer you example after example of how bad an idea this is, how corrupt it is and you spout the same crap over and over. You don't care about right and wrong. You don't care about history or freedom. You refuse to rise up to face the challenges in front of you. You only care about what you want.

Look at the size of this thread. Look at the effort people have put into trying to steer you away from your wrong-headed ideas. To show the truth about the plan being proposed. To show the evil intent behind it. You have refused to see the truth no matter how many times it is shown to you.

You ungrateful, no-spelling, cool-aid-drinking little bastard. You'll sell your country and your countrymen down the river for a little bit of second rate health care. You vote-selling whore. You have no honor. You have no soul. I will not waste any more of my time on you. If you persist in this crime against democracy and freedom and free enterprise, I will consider you my enemy and treat you as such.

Until you can grow up and be a responsible citizen, I will no longer participate in any of your threads, and I will not appreciate your interference in any thread I start.

If you pull your head out of your selfish little ass, though, I will be the first to welcome you back with open arms.

I sincerely hope you grow up to be a man someday.

Goodbye.

Lance.

[wardd]

salt, when i grow up i want to be as closed minded as you and consider anyone that disagrees with me as a congenital idiot.

and your example were less than persuasive, mostly it consisted of bashing me personally with little factual backup

an old trial lawyers saying, when the facts are on your side pound the facts if the facts arnt on your side pound the table.

democracy is the coming together of different ideas and forming a consensus, thats what a vote is, we had an election campaign and the idea for a healthcare reform was a prominent aspect of that, no one can rightly claim to be surprised, the votes were counted and unfortunately for you the other side carried the day. now is the time for those that lost to suck it up and get behind the will of the people ( after all thats what democracy is all about) and carry on.

with the next election your side will have its chance to present its ideas in the democratic market place and change things if thats the will of the people at that time.

untill then you can complain or carry on, but i doubt it will change much

isnt democracy grand?

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by marshmat

I have no idea where that figure comes from. In reality, provincial records indicate that 9 out of 10 ER patients in Ontario are looked at by a doctor, treated, discharged, and back to their normal lives within 9.4 hours or less. The remaining ten percent are the ones who are in serious enough condition to be kept in hospital overnight or longer.
Virtually anyone entering a Canadian emergency room in an ambulance, or with a major injury, or suffering from stroke, heart attack or another urgent condition will bypass the waiting room completely and be under a doctor's care within minutes.

There are a couple of private corporations that are trying to get in on the primary care scene in Canada, and they have recruited a very small number of doctors who feel they could make more money in a private system. This group has been conducting an extensive P.R. campaign in both Canada and the US for several years, using mostly falsified information. Most of our doctors, and most of our citizens, think they're nuts, so I would encourage anyone looking for information on the Canadian health system to consider your sources before making any snap judgements.

I meant to get to this earlier as it should not go unchallenged. There are so many corroborative sources for my statement about Canadian ER wait times that it's just a matter of choosing. I've tried to limit the articles to Canadian news journal sources, rather than American websites and blogs which are potentially politically motivated. The gist is that Canadians wait about 2X as long for emergency care than those in the US. This is a skewed number, though, as Health Canada only includes 'acute' conditions in the statistical data, which skews the results lower as urgent conditions naturally move you to the front of the line, while the statistical data for the US includes ALL ER visits.

Just Google 'Canada emergency room' and see what you get.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/...cy-050401.html
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/175394
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...e584b93ea9&k=0
http://beta.wellandtribune.ca/Articl...aspx?e=1636504
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/...1.html?ref=rss
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0..._er_wait_times
http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blo...ency-room.html

Jimbo

Salt is not alone.

[thudpucker]

Wardd what makes you think most of the people in this country are on your side of this Health care socialized medicine issue?

[Upston]

Let me suggest a Beer summit for all the posters on this matter.
We could get together and allow the media to film us for 30 seconds and report all is resolved.

I suppose Ward and the other progressives would be happy to attend if they got a travel voucher, a free room and obviously free beer.

IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO THESE SELF ABSORBED LIBERALS THAT SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR ALL THIS STUFF.

They no doubt would complain the airline was making a profit, the hotel room was to small and the beer wasn't cold enough,

I don't know how this sense of entitlement happens but it's time for those that are pulling the wagon tell some of these people to go away.

Most of us just go along cause we are nice and don't want to have Ward in our face, but now is the time to act or the American dream will sink in the muck with the rest of the planet.

"Run to the sound of the guns my boys"

That's a metaphor Ward, not a threat, before you start whining again.

Brad

[thudpucker]

Well said Brad, great analogy!

[wardd]

upston, when i see the banksters getting billions and billions of our money and the sense of entitlement they exibit , maybe the common folk should be entieled to at least health.

ok, the current system is unsustainable, depending on your age and income bracket you may be facing 50% of your income going to health care in the not to far distant future, thats a projection of the past decade in cost increases.

we as a nation already spend more on health care per capita than other first world countries and still have millions uninsured

just as a matter of fiscal sanity it would be cheaper for single payer and you could still get insurance for more than basic health care if you wanted

by the way the us is 19th or worse as far as infant mortality goes

the politicians spew forth this crap about a government bureaucrat running peoples health care, well guess what their healthcare is run by government bureaucrat, i dont see them going out and getting private insurance on their own, gee i guess government healthcare can work after all

i've seen the worst of government and the best of government and government only works as well as the people will it, by voting

if republicans say government dosnt and cant work, then why in hell are they so eager to run it,

when republicans get in the first thing they do is set out to prove government dosnt work and they are very good at making government not work

when you look at the numbers objectively and not through a prism of ideology the numbers are on my side.ie the current system is unstuainable

and by the way if g w bush thought government healthcare would work for iraq, why couldnt it work for us?


Projects

Iraq Health Systems Strengthening


Introduction

Abt Associates in conjunction with the United States Agency for International Development and the Coalition Provisional Authority, worked from April 2003 till late 2004 to strengthen the healthcare system in Iraq. Our work covered four basic areas:

Strengthening the Ministry of Health
Training health professionals
Delivering equipment to public health clinics
Distributing small grants to Iraqi and other organizations
Strengthening the Ministry

After the 1991 Gulf War, Iraq's excellent state-run health system slowly deteriorated, until by 2003, according to UNICEF, the number of primary health clinics available to Iraqis dropped from 1,800 to 929, with one-third in serious need of rehabilitation.

The Ministry of Health seized the opportunity presented by the collapse of the Baath Regime to establish a new health-care model. The development of a comprehensive vision document and strategic plan for the Iraqi health system was facilitated by a USAID/Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) team, with Abt Associates' assistance.

Protecting Against Disease

The Ministry of Health, assisted by Abt Associates, piloted a prototype rapid response disease surveillance system in Basra and parts of Baghdad. The system was designed to report on selected communicable diseases with real-time data entry and information availability. Initially, telephone reporting was used to immediately enter reportable diseases. Trainers were trained, and in turn they trained 100 health care providers in the pilot areas.

Developing a Vision for the Health Care System

In August 2003, the Ministry of Health formed a Health Planning Steering Committee to discuss and develop mechanisms for an appropriate health system in Iraq. The product of the meeting was a document entitled "Iraq Healthy and Free." That work recommended the formation of working groups for each of nine functional areas of the health system.

Administering the Health Care System

In January 2004, the Ministry of Health, again assisted by Abt Associates, established a networked data entry system to facilitate the input of data from over 3,000 health-care facilities ranging from hospitals to primary health-care clinics to dental clinics, research centers and others. The system allowed simultaneous data input from multiple users.


guess who hired ABT?

",,,when republicans get in...(they start acting like Democrats)" - Not again they won't. We will string them up.
If a few liberals get intermixed, they will be strung, as well.
The ******** has gone far enough.

[fasteddy106]

Actually Brad, we who produce could really f**k up the system and do as John Galt did in Atlas Shrugged, just walk away and stop pulling the wagon and leave the non-producers to their own devices, what the hell, they won't last long, they don't believe in personal gun ownership.