My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

[balsaboatmodels]

Originally Posted by masalai

I have no doubt many are rallying to encourage their elected members reject this UNREAD bill if only for 2 main reasons.....
* 1 - USA is INSOLVENT and the Govt will not be able to pay...

Excellent point.
"Show me the money"?

Seems to be getting run over by the emotional adrenaline rushes gained in doing the following:

If you go rabid on denouncing the "left" or the "right",

I starting to believe that eventually "adrenaline addiction" swamps logic and reason.

[masalai]

Excellent point. - - "Show me the money"? - - - http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[balsaboatmodels]

Originally Posted by masalai

Excellent point. - - "Show me the money"? - - - http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Ah, didn't know about that thing, informative.

Just to be clear, I was meaning "show me the money" that's gonna pay for the thing.

[masalai]

True, and I answered it I hope, to your satisfaction? - - Of course there is the printing presses, if they are not running too hot... and Bernanke still has access to the "signature" money that a "snap of the fingers" can create....

[Frosty]

Ah printing presses ,--a documentary 2 days ago I forgot to tell you. 40 million a day printed, 10 million more than dirty ones coming in.

I still don't think it will catch up to that clock. No way.

[wardd]

i dont know what he would do, nothing people do surprises me but he was up and walking around talking to people immediately after

why they were arrested if they were i dont know that either

his lawyer put it in the best possible way, asking for donations toward his medical care

one thing has been bugging me is the public option could possibly bring down health care costs to the individual by giving the insuraance companys true compitition so say your taxes go up $1 but you save $4 in premiums , isnt that a good deal?

your $3 to the good. its not taxes that bug me, its what i get in return

i once listened to a small business owner raise hell about all the taxes he paid, and you know what, most of his business came from government, if it wasnt for those same taxes he wouldnt be in business

some people are so cought up in government bad, taxes bad that they cant see any good in them

its when the bad government crowd run government that it seems at its worst, need i mention "your doing a hecka of a good job brownie" and katrina. when bush came to power fema was a world class organization them bush filled it with his cronies and look what happened to it

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by wardd

one thing has been bugging me is the public option could possibly bring down health care costs to the individual by giving the insuraance companys true compitition so say your taxes go up $1 but you save $4 in premiums , isnt that a good deal?

your $3 to the good. its not taxes that bug me, its what i get in return

Whatever the US government does costs more than if you did it in the private sector. It's just a historical fact.

The government plan will end up costing more than a private plan. A typical private plan costs a family like $500-600/month. Tax revenues will have to go up AT LEAST this much per household in order to pay for this. For far less money than the cost of the proposed 'overhaul', we could simply buy all the un-insured people private insurance plans.

We know the money will NOT be raised through an 'income tax' for two reasons: one is that you would have to raise the income tax on the middle class pretty heavily to find enough money and that would break a key campaign promise, and two, as the wealthy are already paying the bulk of this tax (top 4% of earners pay 55% of all income tax revenues) ; there simply isn't enough rich people to pay for what they are proposing.

So instead they are going raise to taxes on EVERYTHING to attempt to pay the bill. The 'cap and trade' scheme is a key part of this. All sorts of other taxes are being proposed from 'soda pop; taxes to a national VAT, which instead of REPLACING the income tax, would be IN ADDITION to the income tax.

Jimbo

[wardd]

UnitedHealth CEO
Stephen J. Hemsley
2007 Compensation
$13.2 million
2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042
Former Managing Partner and CFO of Arthur Andersen (BusinessWeek)
Total Value of Unexercised Stock Options (Forbes)
$744,232,068
2009 Options Exercise
$127,001,281
Value of Wayzata, Minnesota Home (Hennepin County Assessor)
$6,640,000

i know, i know, class warfare


and none in the private sector come close to Medicare and the va in efficiency

[masalai]

"Cap & Trade" dead? http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=2140 and also for you folk, - China knows what to do about the "up-coming energy crisis" http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt...23618320090810 and finally an exerpt from "Casey's Daily Dispatch" free subscription http://www.caseyresearch.com/casey-s...aily-dispatch/

Miscellany

* Making Big Brother Proud. During my absence, someone sent me a link to a video of an ad being run by the Democratic National Committee. It is a beautiful thing, ignoring any real issues and spinning things in such a way that any reasonable person would think that the evil Republicans are behind every expression of public outrage at the direction the government is headed in. (And, for the record, I am not a Republican – or a Democrat, for that matter.) Big Brother would be proud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtTBkxvBq88

* Here’s a Great Idea. Dan Ferris also forwarded me an email from a friend with the following suggestion, which I very much like. Namely, “Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms just like NASCAR drivers, so we can identify their corporate sponsors.” Now that would be a change I could believe in.

Along the same lines, I like the idea of also forcing the government to stop automatically withdrawing taxes from paychecks. Instead, wage earners would be responsible for sending out their tax payments on a monthly basis. By my back-of-the-envelope calculations, it would take about two months of writing out the big checks to Uncle Sam before people came to grips with just what government (or, in this case, one slice of government) is actually costing them… and out would come the pitchforks. We cannot afford our current level of government, and the sooner we get around to cutting it back, the better. Period.

And that is that for today’s edition. As I sign off, I see that the stock market is off pretty hard, though not nearly as hard as it should be, all things considered. Meanwhile, our favorite form of money, gold, is hanging in at $944, and oil continues to hold over $70 a barrel despite the announcement by GM -- or Government Motors, as many now prefer to call it -- that its Volt hybrid is likely to cruise along at 230 miles to the gallon, and in city driving no less. Per above, I’m skeptical.
Until tomorrow, thanks for reading and for subscribing to a Casey Research service.

WOW, Mas. Every once in a while you do suprise!
Other dude, What concern is Katrina to someone paying taxes in Oregon? Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin knew that 100,000 city residents had no cars and relied on public transit. It was the city's failure to complete its mandatory evacuation, ordered Aug. 28, that led to hundreds of deaths. In fact, About 56 hours before Katrina made landfall, the National Weather Service and National Hurricane Center cited an "extremely high probability" that New Orleans would be flooded and tens of thousands of residents killed. Notice was given and ignored. Also, may I make comparison between Nagin's "armed gangs committing rapes and murder in an "almost animalistic state" (in an Oprah Winfry interview) and Baton Rouge POLICE looting with the civility and order of how 250,000 Southern California residents evacuated during the 2007 wildfires.
Wow, again - UnitedHealth CEO Stephen J. Hemsley made $13.2 million in 2007?! I wish I had applied myself better in school, worked seemingly endless 20 hour days and made fortunes for my company like him! Oh well, we'll get a union guy to fill the slot and all will be peaches and honey..."How long till break?"

[masalai]

Mark, it is the consistent message... As I have always been posting, - - - - Just different people expressing the same story from different angles.... - - - - - I fail to see any grass roots action, and THAT IS WHERE THE ACTION SHOULD BE.... - - - - Until then, your troubles grow every day and the potential to resume a normal life gets further away... Something like "every day of delay adds another Month or 3 months to the misery you must endure, before recovery can be seen (at least 10 years of Depression at the moment possibly 20 and lengthening ever faster)... - - - - - - - Just look at the recovery period for Japan - 20 years from their little bubble and still in fiscal pain... The USA is in a FAR BIGGER MESS...

US$1 trillion, I am told is about a stack of $1000 bills piled up about 69 miles high.... If you were given 1 trillion dollars to celebrate the birth of Jesus some 2020 years ago, and spent 1 million a day, the interest would accrue, faster than your spending... or to just spend/dispose of 1 trillion at 1 million a day, another 720 years to go.... (just above 2739 years)

Think about this, Estimated value of GLOBAL tangible assets (improvements as opposed to natural) is supposed to be about 200 trillion
The US debt is about (from here) http://www.usdebtclock.org/
* - - 644 trillion for currency & credit derivatives
* - - 11.7 trillion for US National debt
* - - 11.8 trillion for bailouts
* - - 3.4 trillion foreign borrowings
* - - 59 trillion for US "unfunded liabilities - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ADDED up amounts to about 729 9 trillion - - - - PLEASE someone tell me those figures are wrong

Does this really account to......(take a very deep breath)...... The USA owes more than 3.5 worlds???? - - WTF is going on....

[Jimbo1490]

Originally Posted by wardd

and none in the private sector come close to Medicare and the va in efficiency

Haahaha

Thanks for injecting a little humor into an otherwise decidely combative thread!

Jimbo

[Jimbo1490]

Along the same lines, I like the idea of also forcing the government to stop automatically withdrawing taxes from paychecks. Instead, wage earners would be responsible for sending out their tax payments on a monthly basis.

ANYONE in the US is actually free to do this if they desire. You must elect so at the beginning of the tax year and you will file and pay every three months, ie quarterly, just like a 'self-employed' person. There are no penalties or special scrutiny. Wage earners with widely varying income (like salesmen, for instance) are already required to do this anyway because if you owe more than $500 on April 15, you must begin to file quarterly (though this is not strictly enforced, that is what the rules say). Filed this way myself for many years.

Jimbo

[thudpucker]

Thanks Mas, you backed me up again. "I fail to see any Grass Roots action...."

Thats the apathy of the American Public, hence the People in power just let it go as well.

I wonder if I could bring a Civil complaint against Tim Geithner for back Taxes?

[masalai]

Try and see if a lawyer would take a class action would be the idea but you would probably only get an IOU which would not be use-able to pay other fees to the Govt - I think I read of a complaint about that relating to Arnie Land...


The thing is to figure out how to hit-on" The FED whilst it is still printing money that has some value. I will join in that for losses caused by their apparent illegal, immoral and unjustified "insider trading" to manipulate the markets... On the basis of "progression of trends" in gold value alone I could claim a paltry AU$500,000.00... - anything is worth a try in USA it seems - I have heard of USA being also called "litigation central"...

thudpucker, all I hope is that some of you are motivated to organise a "tea party" and prepare a submission to their elected officials... as many signatures as possible and simply say "vote for this bill (that you all do not want) and do not expect any votes next election"...