My objections to Zero's new Health care plan.

[thudpucker]

You knew them as "the Frugals" Mas, you mother was one of them. The "Greatest Generation" are the ones who came together to make WWII a win for global freedom.
Freedom of choice that is. Some didn't take that choice.

That site put's up some appalling numbers. I see my Pvt. Debt is only $23,000.
I haven't had any private debt in years. Many others have not for some other reasons, cant get a loan, prisoners, children, rest home denizens, illegals etc.
So somebody is really in Deep eh?

IMHO, Apathy is why America is in so much financial trouble.
Americans dont seem to care that our own elected members are the sort we should have put in jail when they were caught or exposed in wrong doing.

So we have those representatives, continue spending our money with out asking us.
Why would they bother to ask?
Americans just don't seem to care enough to do anything about the problems except gripe.

Obama successfully made a 'Straw man' out of the 'Filthy Rich' to get votes.
The un-thinking nation of Sheep, not realizing the Bankers, Exec's etc got those huge sums because they promised results, worked 24/7 and were pretty successful for the most part.
This is a Capitalistic Republic. If you ask for it and get it, good for you! That don't make you a bad guy!
The Board that gave it up are really the Bad buys. The apathetic members of the Investor's etc are the really apathetic bad guys.
If you don't pay attention, you just wont know till it's too late.
Apathy is the same thing as; "Oh well, I guess what they are doing is OK!"

Along comes a Pied Piper saying; "Change" and the Apathetic Sheep just get in line.....wearing signs on their backs reading; "Follow me to Slavery"

[wardd]

GLADNEY THE UNINSURED ACTIVIST.... Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. [emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

[TollyWally]

Wardd,
Nice cut and paste.

Are you bothered by the filmed attack on a fellow American by union members at a public political function?

Do you think there might be a link between Obama's published remarks such as the request "to get in their face" or "bring a gun to a knife fight" and the violence towards Americans who question the wisdom and merits of the Obama plan?

[wardd]

it was a political function open to all even union members and who attacked who is open to debate but he did get up and walk away so the wheelchair is nice touch

no, i just thought the hypocrisy on his part interesting , protesting against healthcare that would have covered him and then begging for money to cover his medical expenses

[masalai]

All I can say is "This is your Life".... and it does not get any better - it gets WORSE.... I have to agree with thudpucker's above post... We sing a song in church "Jusus Reigns", and singing it I have been reminded in the case of USA "Apathy Reigns", and nary a sign of Jesus anywhere...

[TollyWally]

Wardd,

LOL, have you watched the clip? After doing so it seems hard to find it a debatable event.
No one has said that the meeting was closed to Union members.

Have you an opinion regarding Obama's remarks and the violence directed towards people who have differing political views?

It is not hypocrisy to be uninsured and against government controlled healthcare. Begging is a pretty far stretch. You are basically denigrating the victim for political gain.

Mas,
We most definitely are not suffering from apathy regarding the healthcare issue. Our governments reckless financial habits more so. I would point out that there has always been a sizable minority who disapprove. We are hampered in that cause by the strategic wealth redistribution tactics of the left wing . The building of diverse coalitions feeding off the public trough was one of FDR's legacies to the detriment of out nation.

[masalai]

I have no doubt many are rallying to encourage their elected members reject this UNREAD bill if only for 2 main reasons.....
* 1 - USA is INSOLVENT and the Govt will not be able to pay... - and
* 2 - Contained therein are some very (draconian) nasty laws...

So why all this "begging-socialist / democrat / republican / thieving-capitalist" crap, it is surely a common cause for ALL usanians - If you go rabid on denouncing the "left" or the "right", you effectively piss on half your "gunpowder"...

[wardd]

It is not hypocrisy to be uninsured and against government controlled healthcare. Begging is a pretty far stretch. You are basically denigrating the victim for political gain.

victim is debatable and his lawyer was asking on his behalf for donations because he was too medicated to ask for himself

[TollyWally]

Wardd,

If the victim status is debatable, let us have the debate.

The film clips show a much smaller man on the ground with a group of larger union shirt wearing men standing over him in an aggressive manner. There were 2 arrests for assault, both union members.

Is it your position that a smaller man selling protest gear threw the first punch at an obvious pro Obama group of larger men dressed in union garb?

You have not ventured an opinion of Obama's published remarks about the "Chicago way" and violence committed by his left wing supporters.

Your cut and paste posting is an attempt to denigrate Ken Gladney, your political opponent. Why do you do that?

[wardd]

i havnt had a chance to read obamas remarks yet

gladney was up and walking around after his so called attack and next day he's in a wheelchair all lawyered up asking for donations for his medical care and you dont see anything fishy here?

[TollyWally]

Mas,
Usanians is a rather odd term to an American's ears. Is that your invention or is it in common use elsewhere?

"So why all this "begging-socialist / democrat / republican / thieving-capitalist" crap, it is surely a common cause for ALL usanians"

This is not a common cause amongst all Americans. We have a cultural divide in this country. 1 side wants more and more from a government that doesn't have the money to pay for it, as you are quick to point out. The other side does not want the government to take on a bigger role in our problems nor trust it to act in a responsible manner.

An imperfect but approximate division has one side a coalition of liberals, Democrats, socialists and a more urban base with the other side a coalition consisting of conservatives, Republicans, Libertarians, captalists and a more rural base. There are many exceptions of course. Hence the political fight, namecalling, etc. We are not pissing on half our gunpowder we are trying to shoot each other with it.

[TollyWally]

Wardd,
I have no doubt his lawyer designed a press conference for maximum effect. On the other hand why would Gladney have had a wheelchair prior to being injured? While I myself would not take a litiguous route to right this wrongdoing I don't see why he should not. I am more of a hands on, fix it myself, kind of a guy.

What I find fishy is your rather blatant attempt to make him look bad while maintaining a veneer of plausible deniablity.

[wardd]

after the attack he was up and walking around telling everybody he was attacked and waving his arms around

it was when he was begging for money that the wheelchair came into it

find and watch the videos

[Frosty]

It has been suggested that apathy is the reason for Americas problems. But if I was American I too would be apathetic I mean what can you do honestly.

I said before that America has been all that is good and at the same time brought all that is bad.

Perhaps it is just too big .We sit and watch this unfold, this vast economy has lost control of itself.

To change the government means you have to change the minds of millions and millions of people!! how can you do that, you cant.

Hence apathy.

[TollyWally]

Wardd,

A closer examination of my posts will show you I have seen the videos.

You question if he is a victim or not but won't address the subject when asked directly. I can see a couple bigger guys in union garb standing over him in a threatening manner and being chased off by the crowd.

Do you think a smaller guy like him would throw the first punch at a group of 4 bigger obvious union guys?

Why do you suppose the police arrested the 2 union members for assault?

Why do you keep casting aspersions on Gladney by stressing that he is begging. That is a far stretch of the term.

You give every indication of acting as an apologist for the brown shirt tactics of the SEIU and are trying to smear this poor guy for political points on an international boating forum of all places. Your cover as an indifferent observer is long blown. Why don't you man up and address the questions raised or retire gracefully and leave us in peace.