Kayak or Canoe or something else ?

[Fanie]

Hi guys,

When is a kayak a kayak and when is a canoe a canoe ?
Is it size related or the shape ?
Is it because you predominantly row it ?

If you put a sail or motor on a kayak does it become something else - a sail boat or a power boat perhaps ?

Thanks...

[masalai]

I may well be wrong, but for me, a kayak is a vessel where there are watertight voids and you are held in place so you can do a "roll" and recover to normal position and continue, whereas a canoe is an open hull also possibly with buoyancy chambers ? power mode is open on latter...

[cthippo]

I would say the definition is mostly where you paddle it from. In a kayak you paddle from the middle with a double bladed paddle and in a canoe you paddle from the end with a single bladed paddle.

That's the only definition I've seen so far that takes into account all the variables.

The problem with the chamber concept is that there is an entire class of 'yaks, the original ones, actually, that don't have this. Skin on frame boats, because of the way they are made, don't lend themselves to compartments. My boat (an Emotion Edge) doesn't have them, nor do many whitewater boats.

Likewise, the covered distinction falls short because there are decked canoes and sit on top kayaks.

[masalai]

Living on the opposite side of the globe to the "Eskimo people" I thought that their kayak was "a sealed void to up around their waist" which enabled their "recovery roll" - as seen on Documentaries - or is that another TV myth? - - That being the main difference between Kayak & canoe... Even the locally manufactured GRP sit-on-strapped-to kayaks seem to have that capacity (recovery-roll)...

[alan white]

Kayaks melt by definition into canoes with covered decks and double paddles. At some point you have to call one a kayak and the other a canoe.
This question and similar ones appear frequently. You could ask the same of a million things. Ranch house and cape. Street and road. Girl and woman.

[Fanie]

Ok so if one consider a kayak, when does it become a boat and is not a kayak any more.

Can a kayak be 8m long and a meter wide - or what is the cryteria.

[masalai]

Like "fiat currency" valuation... Whom soever will believe and accept that it is a Kayak and not a boat by your evidence of definition (see google/wikipaedia and other resources)... It all depends on who do you need to convince of what, to gain exemption from a stupid fee/legislation ... ???

[masalai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoe

Differences from other paddled boats

* Kayak - A kayak differs from a canoe in that the kayak uses a double-bladed (one on each end) paddle while canoes use a single bladed (one blade at one end and a t-grip at the other) paddle, while canoes are generally open decked and kayaks are generally closed deck there are exceptions, such as wildwater canoes which are closed decked and surf kayaks which are open decked. A double-bladed paddle allows for more efficient propulsion (higher stroke rate possible, etc.), but is more difficult to use effectively in a wider craft (canoes tend to be wider than kayaks). The spraydeck (also known as a skirt) is used to seal the gap between the deck and the paddler, making it possible to recover from a capsize without flooding the interior of the hull with water. In some parts of the world kayaks are considered canoes, and open-decked canoes are called "Canadian canoes".
* Rowboat - Not considered a canoe. It is propelled by oars resting in pivots on the gunwales or on 'riggers' that extend out from the boat. A rower may use one (sweep-oar) or two oars (sculling). A rower sits with his or her back toward the direction of travel. Some rowboats, such as a McKenzie River dory or a raft outfitted with a rowing frame are suitable for whitewater.
* Adirondack guideboat - a rowboat that has similar lines to a canoe. However the rower sits closer to the bilge and uses a set of pinned oars to propel the boat.
* Dragon boat - while it handles similarly to and is paddled the same way as a large canoe, a dragon boat is not considered a canoe since its construction is markedly different.

[Fanie]

Hi Mas

No it's not to get by any legislation. I'm building a 5m x 1m wide kayak. The stern is not sharp but flat and looks larger as a result. Some now says it's a boat, especially after I suggested I'll put a small outboard on it... simply because it's less physical to get somewhere. I may even try a small sail on it.

I'm just trying to determine what the limits are.

[masalai]

Call it a personal floatation vessel or general floating vessel... or a "f'cked-if-i-know"...

[cthippo]

Originally Posted by Fanie

Hi Mas

No it's not to get by any legislation. I'm building a 5m x 1m wide kayak. The stern is not sharp but flat and looks larger as a result. Some now says it's a boat, especially after I suggested I'll put a small outboard on it... simply because it's less physical to get somewhere. I may even try a small sail on it.

I'm just trying to determine what the limits are.

How are you going to paddle a 1M wide kayak?

The one I'm building now is only 30" and I think it will still be too wide.

Pics or it didn't happen

[masalai]

Maybe it is a canoe? About the size of a small "War-Canoe" ?

[Fanie]

You paddle a 1m wide thing very easy. If you're a small guy with the miniature upper arms like a tyrano rexy you may have a problem, but we all have the gorilla like long forearms

760mm would be ok if you sit deep in it, but if you fish it's sometimes very nice to sit a little more elivated and still have decent stability.

Mas, you know me. I'll make the 12m one that does look these old war thingies you see in the island movies.

I floated it in the pool today - 200L of water in it floats it on it's mark. This is only the bottom part, the top has to be done still.

Still lots to do and I have some things to do for the cat as well.

[masalai]

Hi Fanie,
Next step is the long passage making canoes they (Pacific Islanders) made in their great migratory or trading voyages... The fore-runners of the modern 'catamaram' (which is the INDIAN word to be found from the southern tip (Cape Comorin) and up the west coast - - but is actually a bunch of logs / bamboo tied together...

The voyaging canoes were HUGE and had open bridge-decks to carry everything including pigs and planting material for their new-found settlement...

[Fanie]

Next step is the long passage making canoes

They're called catamarans Mas ! You lash them together in pairs so the wife can sleep in the other one so the snoring doesn't keep each other awake. It also confuses pirates since they do not know what makes these unearthy sounds... especially when it's misty.

Have you ever heard of the pirates taking anyone asleep ?
I rest my case