Jones Act, Waivers and Cabotage

[kach22i]

Tell me all I will ever need to know.

NOTE:
I started a thread which lead to this topic - my research can be found here:

http://www.hoverclubofamerica.org/in...opic=648&st=15

..............and I thought this was cabotage.

[safewalrus]

Difference in pronouc-eation I believe!?!

[Thunderhead19]

Okay! If your boat was built outside the USA and you want to take passengers you're pretty much "pooched". Waivers technically exist, but anyone can quash them simply by putting their objection in writing while your application is being processed. There is only one legal way to use your craft to earn profit, and that is as a rental vehicle. Then you're free and clear.

I find it interesting that all non-comercial users, particularly government agencies are totally exempt. On top of that there are no such rules about aircraft, trucks, and trains.

As for the contention that the cabbotage laws are necessary, I have only one thing to say. If the US government wants to shelter and prevent it's various industries from NEEDING to be competetive internationally, and keep it's citizens from freely buying products wherever they want, let them. Let them bear the cosequence of allowing weak, poorly run companies to continue to be major players in the US marketplace at the taxpayers expense.

[maddyfish]

Sounds like a good idea to me, and I would add, we should require any ship that imports good to the U.S. be made here as well. Since nearly everybody in the world does buisness here, what are they going to do, say no?
Next email will be to my U.S. representative, and Senators.

[longliner45]

the reason of the law was to keep our boatyards up to par in case of war,to keep our ship yard viable so we could build pt boats in ww2 and mike boats for vietnam .which led to the possibilty of building larger boats in smaller yards

[safewalrus]

Whatever the reason the system works - actually you pinched the idea from us Brits when we was famious and had big 'colin-ies' and traded tea with some of the smaller ones! But tis a bloody good idea, trouble is our lot ain't got the sense to reintroduce it! Make sure your people KEEP it (no matter what the excuse!)

[Thunderhead19]

Originally Posted by maddyfish

Sounds like a good idea to me, and I would add, we should require any ship that imports good to the U.S. be made here as well. Since nearly everybody in the world does buisness here, what are they going to do, say no?
Next email will be to my U.S. representative, and Senators.

Now you're thinking! Sure, it will escalate the cost of imported goods and drive inflation through the roof, but i'm sure that it would serve someone's intrests. After all, it's not like theres a lot of working-poor people in america.

The american cruise ship industry is forced to spend millions and millions of dollars in mexico and canada (good for me anyway) when it could be going to the US, because of the cabotage laws. Realistically, if American shipyards were as organized and efficient as those in france, scandinavia, japan, holand etc... there would be no need for the jones act and other cabotage laws because the industry would be capable of supporting it's self against all comers.

Why can't it?
Because it doesn't have to.

That should make you angry!

The American shipbuilding industry should be building cruise ships, supertankers, and transport ships. It should be raking in contracts from all over the world! It isn't. Because it isn't competetive!, because it doesn't have to be!, and because it's just easier not to be.

Great Americans like Henry Kaiser pioneered the kind of shipbuilding techniques that are making other nations great shipbuilding powers! Today american shipyards are all cuddled up in their comfy isolationist blanket, content to wallow in what amounts to a legislated entitlement, instead of striving to be pioneers, and leaders again (which they so easily could do). But something would have to force them to spend some money and effort on that.

Maybe if they faced extinction as a consequence, they would do it.

Not every industry in america today has been forced to get tough or die. Farming, ranching, lumber milling, to name a few, are carefully protected. But because these industries have been allowed to atrophe by not forcing them to compete, look at where they are now. America can no longer meet all it's food consumption needs, america can no longer produce it's own most popular household goods (television sets are no longer made domestically for example). If Barbie dolls were made in america, they'd be sixty dollars apiece!

When the last of america's wealth moves offshore, and american industry gets far enough behind, it's just going to be mayhem. Nobody wants that.

C'mon Maddyfish, we gotta get people off their duffs! Make them remember the thunder of machines, and the blood, sweat and tears of american men and women that built those shipyards and factories in the first place. The raw fortitude and determination that made the USA an industrial power, the envy of all others. Where has it all gone??

Well, maybe it's Canada's turn then.

[BillyDoc]

Thunderhead, nice lecture . . . and I agree with it.

The problem is, that our "leaders" have looked around at little problems like "peak oil" and "global warming" and "currency hegemony" and the fact that we haven't had a year when we didn't have a trade deficit (and we've hit new records for the last four or five) in forever, and the fact that we are in debt up to our ears to the rest of the world . . . and they came to a very sensible conclusion.

Just like individuals and corporations go bankrupt to escape from their creditors, our leaders seem to have decided that looting the place and selling off all the assets, then dumping whats left and moving on is the only solution that makes sense.

I studied econ in college (amongst other things) and I can't argue with the conclusion. It's the getting sold down the proverbial river that pisses me off.

Bill

[safewalrus]

Just remember Bill your not the only country in the world that's being ripped of by it's leaders - that unfortunately happens to us all, no matter faith, religion, colour or creed!

It's just that as America has more it looks worse is all! Trouble is there ain't no answer cos when you kick arse the new ones are just as bad! Orwell "Animal Farm" indicates what I mean!!

[BillyDoc]

That is very true, Walrus,

As the Irish statesman, Edmund Burke, said many years ago: "The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

In the States we seem to have more than our fair share of these "good men." All very busy doing nothing . . . except bragging about how "moral" they all are. You are lucky enough to live where not all the news media are propaganda outlets for the government, although some certainly are. So you don't have to watch your meek and missinformed contrymen act so utterly stupidly, all the damn time! And, of course, be proud of their ignorance as well.

Although I recently found out that in Austrailia campaign contributions OVER $1000 do NOT have to be reported, but those UNDER that amount DO. Now, given the penchant all politicians have for their bribery, that one is stupid beyond my wildest dreams! I would love to know how they sold that one.

Bill

[Thunderhead19]

Is this the beginning of the end?
The mighty Greek and Egyptian empires fell this way. Rome fell this way, the British Empire patheticaly faded away this way.
Maybe it's time to install a military dictator in Washington and call it a day. (You could lobby for foreign aid from China)

[longliner45]

apparantly the cabbag thing works.......dont know anyone who wants to go against bubbas navy!

[Corpus Skipper]

The American shipbuilding industry should be building cruise ships, supertankers, and transport ships. It should be raking in contracts from all over the world! It isn't. Because it isn't competetive!, because it doesn't have to be!, and because it's just easier not to be.

You won't find any American shipyard workers willing to work for 2 bucks a day and a bowl of rice like they do in China, Korea, etc... Funny thing, American skilled labor insists on being paid a decent wage, thereby excluding us from global "competition", as we can't touch the bottom line of the Asian yards. No amount of streamlining or efficiency programs or whatever can make up for a labor cost that is only 10% or less what American workers earn. So in practice, the cabbotage laws keep what's left of our shipbuilding industry in business, otherwise they'd go by the way of most of our other manufacturing industry, to China

[Corpus Skipper]

Today american shipyards are all cuddled up in their comfy isolationist blanket, content to wallow in what amounts to a legislated entitlement, instead of striving to be pioneers, and leaders again (which they so easily could do).

Ever seen an Aegis cruiser or destroyer? In a word, AWESOME. OK, I'll put my soap box away now. Hmmm, I wonder if it will hold an outboard.......

[safewalrus]

hey what's this about the British Empire fading away, hell NO! We bloody well gave it away! and still are (even the bloody Cornish want independance! and the sooner we get's it and away from those muppets the better!) Mebban Kernow!