Jap vs. Japanese offensive or common abbreviation (split from Copied Hull thread)

[Chris Ostlind]

Guys, guys, guys.... Do any of you really think that any bit of this means anything in the life of an individual or, inclusively, on a forum such as this? Yet, here you are, exhibiting the gross amount of energy you have up to this point on the issue of using bigoted terminology. You all have worked so hard to relieve yourselves of this title… to no avail. That for which you have fought so hard, will be worn by you as a badge of your stand on racial bigotry. This is truly something of which you can be so eminently proud.

Even though he did not participate but one time here, Gulliermo is one of the most deeply entrenched of the bunch in his effort to display his sense of denial. A fact… Guillermo asked to not be referred to as a Spaniard, even though he lives in the country of Spain... Why? Because our esteemed friend, Guillermo, comes from a region known as Galicia. Now this region of Spain is one of a proud and unique cultural legacy, much like other areas of Spain, such as the Basque homeland and Catalonia.

Galicia has been the site of many oppressive actions at the hands of the Castilians over the past 500 years, with the most recent and perhaps, most harsh, coming during the regime of Generalisimo Franco. Other than a passing footnote in the long reach of Spanish history, it should be noted that Franco was born and raised in Galicia. This makes him a very special deliverer of his particular brand of dominant hate and cultural bigotry by the central government of Spain. This run finally ended in 1975, with his death.

So, here we have a Guillermo, who knows, from family experience, the kind of denigration of one’s personal and cultural lives, by another who chooses to simply employ harsh terms, derogatory indictments and oppressive living experiences... Yet, he finds it of no consequence that some other culture may have a similar feeling regarding the use of a term that generates the same kind of effect. This is truly remarkable, as well as sad.

All around the world, as we share these ideas on this forum, other human beings are experiencing oppression at the hands of malicious rulers. There are also individuals who think its just OK for them to spread the faith of derogatory commentary, some simply because they heard it being used that way in the language of others.

Have some character, gentlemen. Make fair and appropriate commentary on these pages while leaving out the denigrating terms that slip so easily from the tongue. There are specific reason as to why I feel so strongly about this issue. I shared those reasons with Guillermo in one of three letters I sent to him off list. Perhaps he will man-up and put that info before you.

Beyond that detail, I'm simply sick and tired of watching a world spin ever so further out of control when it comes to unresolved slips of the tongue, sometimes leading to disastrous circumstances. A Palestinian hears several Jewish soldiers referring to his family as a bunch of diseased pigs and he tosses a grenade into their midst. Paybacks occur all along the way from that poorly phrased sentence, forever altering the structure of family on both sides. The list goes on and on with this kind of ignorant, selfish interaction based simply on choice of words. Soon enough, the presence of that just right set of situations will lead to yet another global catastrophe. One in which we will all pay a price.

This forum is not a garage shop where you can toss back a few beers and have at it with a bunch of friendly blokes whom you've known your whole life. This is a wide ranging, International forum for the exchange of ideas in a civil fashion. It's incumbent upon us all to exhibit a respectful dialogue and recognize that there are probably dozens of touchy terms, of which we have no previous specific knowledge in that fashion. Once informed, it would seem like simple, kind, human prudence to honor that sensitivity and save your rougher expressions for the shop and a beer.

The fact that you (collectively, though exhibited by but a few) chose to toss down your own rants in order to protect your bigotry spoke enormously as to your substantive respect for the "other guy"... the hidden lurking individual who has read your comments and finds them to be distasteful, yet never contributes.

My responses after the initial request (and do keep in mind that it was a request phrased in the most non-aggressive fashion) was based, entirely, on the level of abject arrogance being shown by several, key individuals in this discussion. I’ll ask, once, nicely. If you choose to get all puffy about it, I will respond in kind and I will not hold back, as obviously, you have no sense of respect and that means that the gloves will be removed.

You guys wish to focus on the Street Fight portion of the discussion, when way back at the start, the trouble was begun by you, collectively, with RHP and the Danish Bagger, being the principal instigators. In short, guys, you got what you gave and now you are complaining about what you got.

When asked to refrain from the use of a derogatory word, I thought that the typical response to be one of a reasoned approach and a simple adjustment of a phrase or word. In reality, what I found was a crew of, otherwise decent guys, rushing to protect their use of a denigrating term, which can be simply Googled as to the level of offense that some people feel when it is used. If it's offensive and you do not really need it... discard the term in favor of respect owed to fellow man.

You guys can jangle any wordsmithing exercise you wish to justify your substantiation of the term, Jap, but it will not change the fact that it is a very serious hate comment to very large component of the world's population.

In my responses, I simply met the presented arrogance with like in the form of how the rebuttal was formed. Perhaps you might consider an exercise in which I would be a visitor to your shop and I proceeded to refer to someone with whom you have a deep relationship with a set of terms that really hit you the wrong way? Would you like to see me acknowledge that choice of words in a positive, atmosphere restoring fashion? Or, would it be appropriate for me to tell you to bugger-off... as it's an accepted term from where I come? (And no, Bagger, this is not a straw man argument designed to deflect the thrust of the topic. It’s a simple parable for purposes of illumination…. Well, on topic)

My guess is that you'd like to see things be addressed equitably with a proper degree of kindness and retraction. I don't think that any of us seek to create trouble of a serious type. More it comes along and then one has to deal with it. So, imagine my surprise when you selected few sought to pummel me with your uninformed "opinions"?

This is a small world gentlemen... not just this forum’s pages, but the greater planet, as well. It's not going to get bigger in your lifetime, unless there's a serious nuclear holocaust, reducing the population to mere pockets. That means… that sooner, or later, you will become the one who finds some word use, some action, some callous behavior to be offensive. You'll have to make a decision as to how much you want to accept in a world where denigrating comments seem to grow by the ton each day. It will happen to you and there's no way to remove yourself from the process. Ask Guillermo if his parents found a way to escape the denigration of Franco’s regime. No, really… ask him. I’d love to hear what he says. I’ll bet that his Mother and Father had enough hatred and oppression to fill ten lifetimes. I will also bet that they quietly told the tales of this kind of oppression to their kids, in hope that it would never be repeated again.

You guys want to take your shots at me... go ahead. It doesn't change my life one bit, if you really want to know the truth. What will remain is your memory of having had this conversation. The next time you find this issue being tossed back at you, in its many disgusting forms, we'll just see how much you allow it to happen before you say something, before you take a stand, before you say, out loud....THAT’S ENOUGH!

Do let me know when it comes to visit you in your own little corner of the world.

Until then, I wish you well.

[RHP]

Cheer up Chris.

I had lunch yesterday with 4 other couples with a combined 12 kids from 1pm til 6pm and we never stopped laughing, joking and telling outrageous stories all the while.

Regardless of the multitude of problems going in the world today, Life is GOOD.

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

"Disbelief" springs to mind …

Edit: Speaking of disbelief: You seriously think I was "one of the instigators"? There's only one of those here, Chris. Don't try whatever it is you're trying. Frankly, I cannot be bothered going through your post, disassembling it, showing you why your argumentation doesn't work by showing that its' premises are flawed. The reason? Well, you hae shown you're a lost cause in this respect.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by DanishBagger

"Disbelief" springs to mind

So, D-Bag, I get what your mind is doing to you. How does it effect your soul?

My edit... I realize that your mother tongue may not be English, but what in the world does the world, argumentation, mean anyway?

Now, I could be wrong here, but simple reason would tell one that to make a successful presentation of one's argument, one should, at least, get the syntax correct before releasing said argument. Of course, you could always post in Danish and we could then use Babelfish to dissect your flame-out.

Perhaps that is where your erroneous assumptions come from in the first place?

[RHP]

Mods,

Can we incorporate the last 15 posts and any future ones into The Drivel Thread, where it should be?

Thanks
Richard

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Oh, haha, I see you're trying to play mind-games to prove that we're all bad people. I think you should try getting out of that cocoon of yours.

Seriously, I am not going to bother with disassembling your arguments, since - as I already said - you're a lost cause to m when it comes to explaining logic and using argumentation. I cannot be bothered with your simplistic ill-mannered rhetorical adhominem attacks based on something as miniscule as what you're basing all your opinion on. Despite the facts which has been presented to you.

Now, please go find someting more fun than extrapolating to the extreme because of a word you dislike.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by DanishBagger

One should refrain from ending a sentence with a preposition if one desires to be respected in the chosen language. It should read, " ...as miniscule as that with which you are basing your opinion." I trust you will find the simple word usage to fit your needs in future communication.

D-Bag, some would say, after reading your missive, that this represents a case of he whose reach has exceeded his grasp. ;-)

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

I'd love to continue the discourse with you on this level, but because this is a boat design forum, I'd ask that you write me, off list, to continue the discussion. You can send me an email by clicking on my name above and selecting the appropriate option.

Regards,

Chris O

Here's a quote from the original letter, RHP, that got all you guys so worked-up in the first place. Notice that within the quotes, I specifically asked that you write me off list if you wished to continue the discourse. I further suggested that it was inappropriate to haggle about the topic on the BD forum. Unfortunately, you gentlemen chose, instead, to flail away within the thread.

Now, it would seem, you have finally gotten the point and are requesting that the ensuing thread popper be shuffled off to an ignominious death. Hey, I suggested it in the first place.

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

One should refrain from ending a sentence with a preposition if one desires to be respected in the chosen language. It should read, " ...as miniscule as that with which you are basing your opinion." I trust you will find the simple word usage to fit your needs in future communication.

Grasping at straws I see - all in an effort to drag me into a discussion of the finer points of arguing. The same points you will never get.
I'd still say I'm speaking english much better than you'll ever speak _my_ language.

It's funny, you apparently think that by stating that noone takes one serious if ending a sentence with a preposition, then - by extension - nothing I say will be "serious". Sorry, lad, there are more things in life for other people than to be "fly ******** the english language, missing the big pile of dung on which you lie.

D-Bag, some would say, after reading your missive, that this represents a case of he whose reach has exceeded his grasp. ;-)

Yes, just like "some would say" is a term overused by people who can't put an argument together, but relies on some imaginary silent group of people.

But, as I said, it's obvious, you have nothing to fall back on, since you feel it necessary to grasp at those hard-to-get straws.

*"fly *******" is directly "translated" from the danish "flueknepperi".

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Here's a quote from the original letter, RHP, that got all you guys so worked-up in the first place. Notice that within the quotes, I specifically asked that you write me off list if you wished to continue the discourse. I further suggested that it was inappropriate to haggle about the topic on the BD forum. Unfortunately, you gentlemen chose, instead, to flail away within the thread.

Now, it would seem, you have finally gotten the point and are requesting that the ensuing thread popper be shuffled off to an ignominious death. Hey, I suggested it in the first place.

Wow, congrats! Want a pat on the head?

[the1much]

i have a suggestion,,,,1 that should be followed,,and learned from,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
now shuddup bout it,,,mouthing off AFTER you have your say is nothing but PURE ignorance,,,is awful easy to say your FILL,,then at the end of ya crybaby rant ya say,,,oh,,,ya,,,,lets take this somewhere else,,,,,,and treating people the way YOU have been chrissy is way worse then YOUR problem with a word.now SHUDDUP!
and oh,,,if ya gots any problem with ANYTHING i jus typed,,,keep it outta this thread and send me a PM.
and 1 MORE thing,,,,,,go ahead and give me my bad rep points,,,,and dont worry,,,you dont need ta sign it,,,hehe
and before it goes to far,,,,,,take some of Charmc advise,,,,,,,,,read ALL of my post, so ya know at least who ya talking to.
hehe

[masalai]

Hi, the1, well said and put....... Sorry I have no points of approval to give as my mood to give is constrained and beyond my control....

[barklymad]

I think that these latest ,aggressive ,outbursts , and those , elitist , in the stability section , have finally convinced me , sadly , it`s time to leave the BDF.
jaylo

[Chris Ostlind]

D-Bag... you can always honor the original suggestion and simply write to me off list. There you can use all the foul language you please and speak without restraint. By maintaining the interaction here, you are just as guilty as anyone else might be.

I don't need to speak Danish, Bag Man. While certainly an interesting variant on the more dominant German language, it just doesn't have the same impact on an International level. Kinda makes it moot, don't you think?

I await your email.

[DanishBagger]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

D-Bag... you can always honor the original suggestion and simply write to me off list. There you can use all the foul language you please and speak without restraint. By maintaining the interaction here, you are just as guilty as anyone else might be.

Are you done now? Or you want to continue with your unfounded and thinly veiled accusations?

Sorry, but I have given up on you, and in general I have no need to "up my language" any further than it is right now. Nor am I "restraining" myself. So, frankly, I don't know what you're trying to insinuate.

I don't need to speak Danish, Bag Man. While certainly an interesting variant on the more dominant German language, it just doesn't have the same impact on an International level. Kinda makes it moot, don't you think?

Nope, it doesn't make it moot, as the purpose of telling you that, was that english isn't my first language, hence showing you that the last person to be able to hold-up the elitist attitude that someone who doesn't speak "proper" english can't be taken seriously, is native english speakers.
Remember I mentioned you wouldn't notice the huge pile of dung underneath because you were too busy ******* the fly? You just proved that point excellently.

I await your email.

No, you won't get any. First of all because I find the way you now pretend to be an "adult" all of a sudden after all your fits rather pathetic, but also because I don't want you to get my email. I never give my email out to people I suspect might do their worst with it.

Speaking of being immature and merely acting all-adult: It's rather pathetic to watch your pale, sorry attempt at rewriting my nick. I mean, "D-Bag" is excellent thinking for someone in fifth, but after that, one should really try not to do such things.