Intuition vs. Science…

[clodgo]

I know there are allot of professional nautical engineers on this site, as well as students, architects, and amateur, first time, back-yard boat builders. My question to everyone is; how much do you rely on intuition, and/or science, in the process of designing a boat?

Chris

[artemis]

Originally Posted by clodgo

I know there are allot of professional nautical engineers on this site, as well as students, architects, and amateur, first time, back-yard boat builders. My question to everyone is; how much do you rely on intuition, and/or science, in the process of designing a boat?

Don't believe in none of that science stuff here. Creationism is where it's at. Noah never bilt no boat - God told him how an it floated with a whole bunch a animals aboard for a long time. Reckon all any of us has to do is "hear the word of the Lord" an bild it jest like He says.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by clodgo

I know there are allot of professional nautical engineers on this site, as well as students, architects, and amateur, first time, back-yard boat builders. My question to everyone is; how much do you rely on intuition, and/or science, in the process of designing a boat?

Chris

I'm an amateur in boat building. Been working with smaller boats a lot (row boats, open outboard boats, a couple of canoes etc). Currently working my biggest so far 33' motorsailer project.
I rely on intuition with backup. After figuring out what I'm doing (intuitively) I search the backup information needed. And chance my plans if it needs to. It's mostly empirical backup, like it has been working in other designs so it should work here too. Most of the formulas and scantling rules etc are (in my opinion) actually in this category. Not much science to do. Maybe more engineering..

[TollyWally]

LOL, Art or science? Chicken or egg. We need go no further than the subject of the proper propeller, engineered choice or trial and error. Put down your money and take your chances.

[Kay9]

Intuition= David Mann.

Science= Everything else that floats and dosent come apart in first 80 mile voyage.

K9

[Guest625101138]

I am a professional electrical engineer and hobbyist boater.

I lean toward intuition being related more to art than science while engineering underpins design.

Intuitive understanding can lead you to ask the right questions but you need science to get a good answer. (I remember the proposed 50lb 4ft long model of a sailing cat - just did not look right so I asked the question. It was out by a factof of 10 - should have been 5lb.)

Also not all scientific results are intuitive. Look at the debate that something like the concept of DDFTTW can generate. Most people's intuitive feel is that it cannot not work so they are sceptics. Or, who would believe that you do not need to support a propeller mounted on an 8mm diameter 4ft long aluminium shaft pushing a 120kg boat at 7kts. This is not intuitive for anyone I know but it works.

Intuition is the school of hard knocks. Hopefully some wisdom is gained so you can learn from the mistakes. Science is the cornerstone of engineering and sound design.

Rick W.

[safewalrus]

Isn't Intuition some kind of Eskimo???

[clodgo]

Nice diversity of responses, Who the heck is David Mann?

[safewalrus]

Clod, do a trawl around other posts in this section!! Or are you such a leg-end in your own lunch time that you never read other peoples stuff?

[clodgo]

Hey Safewalrus,

I spend allot of time reading other peoples posts, in fact that's why I asked about David Mann, his name is all over this place.

I'm no "legend in my own lunch time", I signed up here to learn about boat design. I am not a boat designer at all, just a furniture guy with an interest in what I consider to be a great art.

There are allot of silly people posting jokes and stuff but I've found allot of very useful information on this site and I appreciate everyone who contributes.

I posted this thread because at the beginning of my own project I stupidly thought I could just pull a design out of a hat. Over the last few weeks I've realized that there is a huge amount of math involved. Unfortunately I'm also not a mathematician, so I've been relying on allot of gut feeling, and/or guess work.

I still don't know who David Mann is.

Chris

[Kay9]

This will get you started:

Build yourself a boat and do a lap, crazy or not?

This is what pure intuition in boatbuilding gets you, with science being nowhere to be found.

K9

[clodgo]

Thanks Kay9,

Wow, I wouldn't go within 100 yards of that thing, even if it was on land!
Aren't you supposed to build things with rounded edges for safety, the tin can looks like a pile of cutlery with sails.

I haven't been able to get Freeship to work on my computer so I'm just making a scale model and putting it in the water. with a little math I should be able to approximate the weight with crew, Displacement, center of lateral plane and so on. If it sinks a few inches lower than the waterline in the drawings, trust me, I'll keep David Vann in mind and go back to the drawing board.

[Wynand N]

Originally Posted by clodgo

My question to everyone is; how much do you rely on intuition, and/or science, in the process of designing a boat?

and something to ponder about... Before the event of Archimedes, Bernoulli, Simpson to name but a few, how did the old seafarers designed and build their boats?

The Vikings, Polynesians, Romans, Spaniards, Portuguese, English and Dutch all sailed the seven seas long before the event of mathematics, sliding rules and calculators In fact, I would venture to say that some of those old sailing boats were better vessels than some of the new "scientific" boats around nowadays

[tuantom]

Trial and error is science, and it all starts with an idea. So without intuition, there could be no science - or at least scientific advancement.

[safewalrus]

Clodgo I'll say one thing about David Vann - he's everything you ain't......fool, idiot, cretin, numpty, maniac......you get my drift?

You have that one important thing that will keep you safe through everything you do - the sense to ask questions and act on the answers, if you think they are OK! (if you don't you won't)