Interest in war

[SamSam]

Do Australians or British or others show so much war footage on tv? Is war such a huge part of others cultures? When we moved south from the midwest I was completely surprised how fresh and talked about the civil war was. When young, "Victory At Sea" was shown regularly along with Army footage. War movies, books and weekly tv shows were rampant. Cowboy and Indian conflicts were constantly shown, and like war themes, were another major theme for movies, books and tv. Along with cops and robbers.

Now with cable tv and "History Channel" and "International History Channel" and who knows what else, although "caboys" and Indians have dropped off a bunch, war is still a major topic. WW II is hashed over more than any, but any and all wars are regular program material. Do others from other countries have such an "interest" in this stuff? Is so much shown so regularly?

[Guillermo]

Here in Spain the main topic nowdays is terrorism.
Cheers.

[safewalrus]

Afraid so, normally of the WWII (we won that one -theoretically) it keeps the peasants minds of the present ones which we're not quite sure about! The one in the 'sandy place'; we won the war, but we're only just holding our own in the peace (?) We don't want to be there (the people) the troops don't want to be there, but we are holding our own at the moment -but the butchers bill is quite heavy! The other one (in the hills) well we are at the moment doing OK - it's tense and the butchers bill is high but we're doing OK.

Now if the TV etc can show all the victories we have won elsewhere (and elsewhen?) we may be able to keep the peasants minds off whats going on and win some recruits into the bargain! We'll that's my take on it!

Oh yes and we got some vets who can talk about it and remember the good old days (now just what was so good about being up to your neck in muck and scared s**tless?)

[Jimbo1490]

Just about every international trend or conflict today relates to WWII, which was itself really WWI, Part II. To really understand today's international politics, one MUST have at a minimum a basic understanding of these conflicts, their origins, prosecution and 'resolutions'. There's really no way around it.

Jimbo

[RHP]

Jimbo, can you expand on that?

I dont see the connection between WW11 and Afghanistan or the emergence of fundementalism within the muslim faith?

Gracias
Richard

[Mychael]

I don't think we get a huge amount. Certainly a bit of news coverage about Iraq.
Every so often there will be some doco on about some conflict or other.

Mychael

[hansp77]

re Jimbos comment,
I think if you coninue the connection from WWII just being WWI part II- into the Cold War being part III- then Afghanistan and their fundamentalism- particularly their opinions of the others, the east and west, the infidels, whatever- begin to make a whole lot more sense in light of what the two superpowers put that country and its people through- and what was revealed to them about the 'Us' in the process.

But then really, with the media coverage, the hollywood mystification of the (past) time of 'Just Wars', IMHO we really are not being asked to look into the connections between WWII and the present- as to what problems are of our own making. It all just gets too messy- too complicated. WWII is simple, compelling... freinds and enemies united to fight and defeat a trully greater evil. After that it is like a bitter divorce- a divorce where anything went in the squabble to win property, power, freinds, and the perception of higher moral and intellectual ground. It is no wonder then that many stuck in the middle between this, witnessing the evil possible by the 'good guys' metaphorically took their bat and ball, went home, and sought out some entirely new and opposed game... Islamic fumdamentalism, militant Marxism, Maoism, et al..


and what was the question again
thats right, War footage...
It is hard to say Sam, not really being able to compare it as such. But from what you describe, at least on 'free-to-air' TV, I would say not quite as much here. We have a bit of our own cultural mythology that we replay and draw upon, ANZAC Day memorials/celebrations every year (the landing at Gallipoli), movies like 'the light Horsemen', 'Breaker Morant', etc, etc, but these things get aired pretty rairly. We also don't have here any real ability to glorify anything in comparison to your Cowboy and Indian wars. Our genicide here was much more 'boring' and by and large mostly one sided- mostly frontier stuff, killings here, disposetion there, a touch of germ warfare (the old measles blankets), and a sprinkle of chemical warfare (poisened flour)- I mean really, how interesting or national-pride-uplifting would a movie about this be- of bunch of blackfellas spearing a few sheep that wander over their traditional lands, then a bunch of white fellas coming out shooting a bunch of blackfellas, women and children too, and then a bit later, some blackfellas spearing some whitefella, and then a whole lot more whitefellas going out and shooting a whole lot more blackfellas- maybe even bringing the law and hanging a few of them. Lots of sickness, confusion, sadness and betrayel??
There were a couple of Battles in southourn Victoria where 'the Blacks' organised and fought back- but this has not AFAIK made it into our popular culture- or I should differentiate here- our popular WHITE culture.

So, we don't get much war here at the moment. We certainly don't get anywhere near as much Iraq as you guys do (from what I can pick up from watching Jim Leher and such). The Aussies we have over there appear to be changing napies at the the child day care center or something- whatever they are doing it is IMO in accordance with the deal Howard set up with Bush (long before he has admitted he had commmitted us to war), that our boys would not be doing the fighting and dying. And by and large they don't. So we don't hear too much.

anyway, I gotta go,
Hans.

[Jimbo1490]

I dont see the connection between WW11 and Afghanistan or the emergence of fundementalism within the muslim faith?

You don't see the connection precisely because you know little about the world wars. Look at the apportioning of middle eastern lands after and because of the allied victory in WWI. This re-drawing of political boundaries set the stage for later conflicts.

Do some research on T.E. Lawrence. Do some research on the British mandates for Mesopotamia and Palestine that followed (and were the result of) WWI.

Jimbo

[Ari]

Our TV channel during news air time shows bombing and gun fight from Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Sri Lanka, Southern Thailand ect.ect.ect.

[Bergalia]

Originally Posted by Jimbo1490

You don't see the connection precisely because you know little about the world wars. Look at the apportioning of middle eastern lands after and because of the allied victory in WWI. This re-drawing of political boundaries set the stage for later conflicts...Jimbo

Unfortunately, Jimbo, you are spot-on with your diagnosis of a generational 'ignorance' of world affairs - which for the most part is little more than 15-second 'sound bites' - usually mouthed by a politician with a vested interest (financial or career), yet mouthed with no true understanding of the subject upon which they pontificate.

In quoting Lawrence you chose a prime example - the squabble between France and Britain over 'mandating' chunks of the Middle east - without consideration of the rights or wishes of its indigineous population - resulting in...well the imposition of 'democracy' by napalm...

Tacitus summed it up (long before world wars) "Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appelant..." Roughly translated: "They create a wilderness, and call it peace..."

[safewalrus]

Lets face it war is glory, peace is boring! And all the other **** is 'pollatics'
and nobody give a fishes tit about 'pollotics' unless they are involved and getting a rake back!

Of course once you get past a mental age of twelve it all changes, but luckily most never attain that! Frosty NEVER will! Surprised he is a peaceful man (there again he woulf probably get two stones fighting so maybe not!)

[SamSam]

It seems like everybodies conflicts go way back and are all tied together, and not just some countries like Iraq, Yugoslavia, etc. Of course the winners never can understand what the losers are bitchen about, or how long a grudge can last. As for causes, that's never clear on both sides either.

When you think about it, war is almost a natural human trait. Like the list goes food, shelter, clothing, war. Utopia is not humanly possible.

[Bergalia]

Originally Posted by SamSam

.... or how long a grudge can last...

Believe me Sam...Where the English are concerned - we Scots will never forget....

[Frosty]

Ok its my turn.

Most wars today and I have to say they are not wars realy . A war is when 2 counries are fighting. America attacking Afganistan is hardly a war.

Anyway mighty America attaked Afganistan for being the alleged home of terrorism.

Iraq-- same thing alleged home of weapons of mass destruction.
Storm clouds over Iran,!!! same again,-- Nuclear power= weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Muslims.

How the world has changed since the Twin towers, been on a plane lately,--tried to open a bank account.

Its this vast difference in belief of God and who or what his name is if he exists. Dugh,--- I feel like a cave man.

In the very short time of just 100 years Germany has twice tried to take over the world in its unbelievable opinion of itself being superior. I strongly believe that that is the reason Germany takes so may immigrants as does the uk in an attempt to stomp out race and individual pockets of religious fanatics.

[RHP]

Originally Posted by Jimbo1490

You don't see the connection precisely because you know little about the world wars. Look at the apportioning of middle eastern lands after and because of the allied victory in WWI. This re-drawing of political boundaries set the stage for later conflicts.

Do some research on T.E. Lawrence. Do some research on the British mandates for Mesopotamia and Palestine that followed (and were the result of) WWI.

Jimbo

Great response, thanks. I´m glad you say I know nothing about wars having lived in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan for 3 years and been travelling throughout central asia for more than 10 and studying the history of the great game thoughout the region (big moment when I crossed the Oxus for teh first time). Afghanistan has a long and unique history of resistence to central authority which lasts until today, either you know its history or you dont however I have a plethora of books I could recommend to you if ever you decide to read up on it yourself.

I am equally well aware of the middle eastern med history and TE Lawrence however in correlation to your comment ref WW11, it bears no relevance.

Before swinging your sword my friend, you should better understand who is standing in fron to you and not make such generalisations.
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