Installing LPG in boats in America.

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by tom kane, Sep 5, 2004.

  1. edaydesign
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    edaydesign Yacht Designer

    Hydrogen

    Has anyone ever thought of using a liquidfied form of hydrogen, like proposed in the automotive industry? One could use this hydrogen as a fuel for a fuel cell to produce electricity. This electricity could then be used to power an electric motor for propulsion. Also, the electricity could be put through both AC and DC currents to be used for auxilary power. Isnt this just similar to diesel-electric locomotives? This is just a thought....

    I am too struggling with this sustainable/alternative fuel source issue in the marine industry. I am currently finishing up my thesis in Industrial Design focusing in the marine industry.


    Has anyone any good places to look into rigid sails or alternitive ways for propusion using the wind?
     
  2. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    New oil prices making everyone look to alternative fuels now.Here in New Zealand the sale of smaller cars has shot up and LPG installers can not supply demand.So it would be good sense to run a boat on a safely installed LPG fuel system.
     
  3. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Propane is much safer than gasoline that is why it is used on the vast majority of lift trucks in the world. "

    Not so , it is used in vehicles allowed to run inside a building because the exhaust is less poisonous than either gas or diesel.

    More like running a stove than locking yourself in a closed garage with the engine running.

    One is called cooking , the other Suicide!

    FAST FRED
     
  4. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    LPG in autos.Ford sells cars and utes to run on LPG,but they cost $1500 more than gasoline equivilent.With the price of gasoline accelerating,LPG is looking more attractive every day.In New Zealand LPG is half the running cost of (Petrol) gasoline,it takes eighteen months to cover the cost of installation.
     
  5. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I very much like the fuel-cell idea. They're more or less perfect for trawlers and other displacement craft. Should start a new thread on that...

    On LPG. It's tricky to pack enough of the stuff into a boat to get any sort of range, is the problem. Works fine on a taxi where they can stick 200 L of tankage under the belly and in the trunk, but that won't get you far in a boat. And being a gaseous fuel, it is inherently more dangerous than gasoline. The more volatile a fuel is, the greater the safety precautions must be. LPG's "safety" over gas comes from the fact that we add odourants to it, so we are offended by the smell and deal with any leak long before it reaches LEL concentration. (By the time there's enough propane in the air for an explosion to happen, you will long ago have left the room with hand over your nose.)
    So it can be done, but the question remains.... why?
     
  6. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2005
  7. Drewsate
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    Drewsate New Member

    LPG Boats revisited

    I wanted to ask the forum, in particular TomKane in NZ who seems to have been developing the idea in NZ, what if anything has been happening with lpg conversion. I just started researching the question in the US, have found no USCG regs on LPG as propulsion, have found several manufacturers with kits for both gas and diesel, but no one doing it for marine use......and am very puzzled. I have a boat with old (1977) Detroit Diesel 8v71TI's which I thought would benefit fuel economy wise from the addition of the lpg booster systems out there. The main concern I have here is these old diesels are dry turbo, so the temperatures at the air intake are perhaps unsafe. I'm considering trading for a smaller boat with 350cid efi gas enines, for which there are numerous dual fuel kits. I'd like to convert one of them to improve fuel efficiency......any thoughts would be welcome! Thanks, Drew
     
  8. edaydesign
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    edaydesign Yacht Designer

  9. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Burning wood!!
     
  10. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    By the end of this year some 200 small fishing boats, out of the roughly 5500 we have in Galicia, will run their engines with LPG, under a program leadered by our local fishing authorities.
    This program is for outboard engined boats. They tested first in an small group of four boats, reaching average savings in the range of 40%, going in some cases up to the 50%.
    Typical new tanks installation for these boats costs around 3000 euros, which are partly subsided by the EU funds. This cost pays-back with fuel savings in one, one and a half years.
    Another program is being developed to switch trawlers to consume also gas instead of diesel, with expected savings in the range of 30%. The aim is to have three of such trawlers working by the end of this year too.
     
  11. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    didn't realise you had any fish left down there Guillermo! or have we had this argument before? Can understand the concept but just don't like the idea of a heavier than air fuel on a boat! Fills yer bilges when it leaks then the day you drop the match from lighting the galley fuel - you loose all intrest in the fish!!! (maybe that's the idea - unknown quotas!)
     
  12. TerryKing
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    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Guillermo, what make/type are these outboards? Are they direct (lubricating) oil injection?

    I assume they have modified or special carburetors, or modified fuel-injection systems. Can you tell us more on how this was done?

    Years ago I converted some gasoline generator sets to LP Gas for Broadcasting Stations. This worked well, after I built controls to 'push' the 'prime' button so they would start immediately. The biggest reason for conversion was that LP gas could be stored for years and gasoline would deteriorate in 6 months. In the cold Northeast USA with the gen-sets indoors at 70 degrees, the LP tanks outside, we could have power back on the broadcast equipment in about 20 seconds (including a 5-second wait to make sure the power stayed off, before starting).

    For smaller engines, where diesel is heavy and expensive, LPG makes sense...
     
  13. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    When the question was first asked about LPG on boats I thought that the first issue discussed would be the heavier than ait factor, as brought up by Walrus.

    Caravans for example must be fitted with a vent at floor level so that ( in West Ozz) the gas can escape without gassing and of course killing the occupants.

    This is not, for obvious reasons not possible in a boat.

    For people sleeping in their boat there is a real danger, in fact one of my primary school teachers died this way. In a caravan.

    I have not slept overnight in my current boat but if I did I would tie my LPG cylinder to the swim platform.

    This of course is probably not possible if you have your LPG gas connected to the engine.

    Poida
     
  14. longliner45
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    longliner45 Senior Member

    not to go off topic but why not natural gas ,,it rises,and I have seen it used in conversions of gasoline engines ,but availability may be a factor ,,I have only seen one filling station ,,for natural gas ,longliner
     

  15. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    Setting up any system using combustible fuel requires a little bit of research and thinking safe in design.in boats use sealed cylinders with internal fitted pumps,fit out of engine compartment,install in overboard drained compartments similar to UK standards.Use liquid injection EFI.Liquid injection of EFI of LPG should be safer than runny old fashioned gasoline.Or you can use remote fuel systems where all fuel components are fitted and sealed from the inside of the hull.Like old fashioned gasproducers used on cars during WW2.Remote fuel systems can be used for all fuel systems including Hydrogen.
     
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