Installing LPG in boats in America.

Interesting subject Propane is much safer than gasoline that is why it is used on the vast majority of lift trucks in the world. Some reasons are that the ignition point of Gasoline is very low about 125deg f versious nearly 1000deg for propane. Propane will not kill you if you inhale it or injest it many of you do this all the time as it is becoming one of the most popular propellants in the world it is in a huge amount of airisol cans as the CFC free propellent. While I would not ever recomend it I have seen guys I work with smoke while they purge LP cylinders try that with a can of gas. I have been thru several LP safty classes and I am licensed in the State of TX to repair and sell LP and equipment. As to the explosion myth it is very unlikely I personally was at a fire in which a RV with 2 full tanks burned to the ground I was in the trailer fighting the fire for several minutes. I helped the people get out of their trailer with minor burns there was no explosion when the tanks ruptured and burned was just a large plume of flame like a big burp. Any one who has ever seen a LP tank explode needs to send proof to Manchester tanks they are one of the biggest LP tank builders out there and in their training the instructors all have said the same thing they have no proof of a explosion yes they have proof of tanks rupturing under extreme PSI and yes there have been large fires but no lp tank explosions. Keep in mind on a cold day -40deg F you can pour LP like water if you want real numbers you can look them up I don't have a copy of my U.S. LP code book handy but I can assure you LP is way safer than gas. Another thought is that the exhaust is not going to kill you either you can operate lp engines indoors because of this no carbon monoxide. None of this has any bearing on the Coast Guard rules on fuel for your boat you will have to check with them on that. And I also know of no place you can pull your boat up to and get LP. By the way the reason I use the term LP instead of propane is that in the US all fuels based on propane have to have ethel mercaptain added to them to make them stink and then they are called LP as propane is odorless and colorless gas. It also makes less power than gas in the same size engine but on the other hand works like nitrous oxide injection on a deisel engine.

 

Thanks for info and commnets firestorm,I have printed it on top quality photo paper.
No doubt it will go into submissions regarding our proposed boating Regulations.

 

LPG on Boats

Hey Tom,
I dont know much about US Regs but we gave our LPG bottles in a sealed compartment where any potential LPG leakage from a bottle is dragged to atmosphere via the cockpit drains (venturi)
Hope its some food for thought
Cheers
JT

 

Thanks jt for your reply and interest.www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site has good info to on safe installation.LPG imports to New Zealand look likely to increase with proposed power generation mooted using this fuel, so boats will no doubt get in on that fuel to.

 

Lpg

How stupid you want to be?

No offence meant but think before you put something down.

Using LPG or LNG as replacement for diesel is of course possible. For the environment it is ok.
However, why do you want to use it? You can throw your dieselengines away because LNG cannot burnt in Diesel combustion engines. Ok for people who have those big v8 burlers, no problem as long as they change the cylinderheads and valves. LNG burns at a much higher temperature than gas. Secondly it gives about 10% less power and your engine consumes another 10% more.
I am not 100% familiar with that section of ABS and USCG but I have a vague memory that LNG is prohibited by USCG - all our ships are on induction, so I am not a 100% sure.
In any case, in Europe forget about getting LNG on your boat. Some ports will even throw you out if they find out that you have LNG on board.
In some cases LNG is used due to environmental requirements because it burns cleaner and leaves less co2 - but there is not a single commercial reason to shift to LNG.
Save for some lunatic who offers a 420" Mega with non-existent brands of Gasturbines running on NON-FLAMMABLE LNG.
If you want to cry, go to his website, if you are allowed to get in:
www.*****************
If this guy was living in Europe, I had put him for court.

 

Thanks for your reply D`ARTOIS and no offence taken.You agree LPG or LNG can be a replacement for diesel,and it is good for the environment.There may be no choice as to whether it is used in boats if low-sulphur diesel is not available and USCG Regulations require cleaner emissions, which are pending.You will have time to phase out old technology.Less power with LNG ? NO..not if modern ram induction with CNG and EFI using LPG or LNG in liquid form,as with Gasoline is used,this beats Gasoline and conventional EFI systems are used.Commercial shift to alternative fuels will be decided by supply and demand and government Regulations.Unfortunately many countries impede new technology by having out-of-date Regulations.In USA..USCG approval does not indicate that USCG recommends that product..but that the product does not conflict with USCG Regulations.Some interesting gas websites.www.boatsaftey scheme.com/part2inboardengines
www.autogasmarine.com/technical-info
www.uscgboating.org/regulations

 

The LNG Issue

I begin to understand at what you are aiming at. But when I look it generally over, I arrive to the conclusion that emission-politics, on one side and political policy on the other, do not necessarily form a unity.
If I look at the current european situation, then it is like Dutch Peter already stated, the general policy is to get rid of LPG finally.
Matter of factly, the Dutch Government used to promote the use of LPG for fuel instead of diesel and regular gas for a very long period, but now they seem to have lost their interest in this issue and have putting forward a heavier regulation towards placement of LNG stations - they become as a result less available.
Then, applications for cars have been improved somewhat during the past years but what you state that LNG betters regular gas,might be a theoretical issue, but not in the everday's practice. I have not experienced yet, although my son runs a Volvo-Skoda agency, on the contrary: LNG applications are hardly requested anymore also due to the general tax policy of the grovernment, to induce taxes on LNG as they were left untaxed previopusly.

What I believe is, that we have to abandon fossile combustibles. What next remains a big question. It's only in advantage of the man in the street that we will find a subsitute for the today's Otto- and Diesel Engine for general use, something that could make us independent from crooked politicians, revolting lay-back countries that unfortunately can put us in a blackmail scenario; something that cannot go to the exchange and play havoc in the global industrie.
Are you with me?

 

The technical answer is easy: use methanol or other alcohols as fuel. Brazil has been doing it for decades. I worked as a mechanic there for a while. The technology uses standard engines with slight modifications. As for the myth that engines loose power, tell that to the Top Fuel dragsters. They have a choice of fuels but use a methanol base with toluene and other propietary additives.

 

Is it not compolsory for gasoline in USA to contain 10 percent alcohol gonzo?
What you say D`ARTOIS is much the same as has happened in New Zealand,the great expectations for CNG and LPG in our case were not realised because the planning and full utilisation of the product on a long term basis never eventuated,and the cost factors went away but not the necessity for alternatives to fossil fuels for obvious reasons.Check up on the efficiency of ram induction on many modern vehicles,and also the use of gas in a liquid form injected as with petrol(gasoline) using conventional EFI and being able to easily switch from one to the other.New Zealand is drawing up regulations for gas in boats.

 

It is only compulsory in some States. They use it to be able to comply with emission regulations. 10% is the maximum allowed. Other states use different additives.

 

Thanks gonzo,there has been many reports of the use of alcohol in auto fuel in USA, both the drinkable and the not so drinkable.Now we have news reports of people using the cooking oil from restraunts ect;,..strait into their deisel vehicles.perhaps they strain it first.Also a company collecting that oil and refining it for resale in diesel vehicles.This has also been reported in New Zealand many times,and some are using that oil to fire steam boats.

 

We would need a Exxon Valdez following to keep me running at W O T. Rich.

 

Hi Richard,If you check on ski clubs using old gas technology in UK they claim litre for litre performance.EFI using liquid gas injected as with petrol,in the same system and being able to change from on to the other is worth checking up on.Fuel alternatives and modern technology offer exciting possibilities.Perhaps not drinking alcohol and burning it in our motors could be a good start,and making Hydrogen is so easy,just uses a lot of power but the power is not wasted.

 

L for L, could be. We ( USA ) have been led to believe gasoline is absolutly safe and harmless. That's why we let anyone, any age or ability to fill gas tanks, even children. Propane, we become paranoid in NJ. Locked steel fences- only adults- special training- thick -heavy tanks- inspected and a limited life span for the tank. I don't think the gasoline companies like it. And they have ex executives on most fuel regulatory boards calling the rules. Rich.

 

Propane is heavier than air too and is commonly used for cooking and heating on boats. LPG just is fairly new.

Bill H.