Hand Gun choice for protection

A problem to me with the Seacamp is that it doesn't lock the slide open on the last shot. It comes in .380 for the same size. I have had 100% reliability with many, many shots with this .380 Ruger but it has the same problem.


I don't know which pocket pistol locks open but all of my full sized semis do. This Ruger is so good, all of my Kel-Tecs are going away. I guess with pocket pistols, with a capicity of maybe 6 rounds, it's not that big of deal but on my full sized sidearms with between 10 and 20 rounds, a locking slide is a handy indicator of when it's time to get another magazine in there. Nothing worse than squeezing off an "air" round.
Okay, I often play with the guys who are wheel-gun lovers but I am actually investing in some of these Mini Masters in .22magnum.
http://www.naaminis.com/bwmm.html

With the four inch barrel it will develop good velocity and has about a 42% one shot stop ratio (I think). The LR version would be more suitable where ammo is hard to find.

[Frosty]

Would you let a man that cant even spell own a gun.

[Frosty]

It is quite clearly marked on the top right hand corner that I am in Thailand.

It is 10pm, I hav'nt even gone to bed yet let alone got up.

Bier is a breakfast for Germans or Swiss --I am neither nor am I Australian.

When you did your Capt ticket did you do navigation and world time zones at all?

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by WickedGood

The latest trend for the military is to travel light and they have just issued Lorsen .25acp to Special Forces

If I were in Egipt I would try to find one of these.

Be sure to get a coupkle extra bulletts; although you will really only need just one shot with this baby.

If Agent 007 had one of these he would have made it all the way to #001

I find that hard to believe. Methinks you're just throwing it out as a test, to see who will swallow it....

Lorcins are cheap pieces of crap with cast zinc alloy frames and poor tolerances, and the .25 acp doesn't have any more stopping power than a .22 LR. The round's only advantage is that being center-fire, it's less likely to misfire than the rim-fire .22.

[Frosty]

I thought it was a cigarette lighter.

It actually fires bullets? really.

Is that what it costs ---a dollar? Come to mention it I think I do remember James Bond lighting a cigarette with one after a shag.

[Frosty]

Or as a paper weight apparently.

You must have hands like a little girl to use it.

What was it made for, waking up the cat?

Wicked, you know Vulkyn doesn't cotton to you. Why do you push it? Let me make this simple... DON'T.
Troy is on the money on .25ACP. Also, the larger diameter and slower velocity than .22LR, makes the .25 stop in a leather jacket. It is worse than useless. It just told your opponent that you intend to kill him, it did not reach an organ and maybe didn't even penetrate the skin, and coming from a pocket gun, is not very accurate. I find it hard to believe that any of our Special Forces carries any .25 caliber - let alone a cheap piece of crap .25.

[Vulkyn]

A quick question to the gun buffs, what caliber would penetrate a regular speed boat's fiberglass hull ?

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Vulkyn

A quick question to the gun buffs, what caliber would penetrate a regular speed boat's fiberglass hull ?

I own one of the very early Bounty II series of sail boat.
One of the stunts they used at its debut was to fire a .38 into a test panel of made up to the hulls thickness.
These old gals are "bulletproof"....


I would not want to chance hiding behind the hull if someone had a 9mm though.
I have taken a look at 6" timbers that they pass right through out at the range..

[rberrey]

If your going to shot a boat hull then you want to blow a hole in it, Up close a 12 ga with slugs, any of the mags 357 up , the newer cal mags like 45/60 , 454 , 480 , 50 pistol rounds. Farther out any of the large rifle cal 308, 300mag, 7mm mag, 30/06, 7.62x54 , ect. Just clip the tip of the rifle bullet to blunt it, it will either tumble or act as a wadcutter eather way it will knock a hole in the hull and do damage inside as well. The 222 was replaced by the 223 because armies cant use a 22 cal round, it maybe splitting hairs. I would buy a shotgun and a small 22 revolver for my basic guns, you can defend your home with both, your wife can handle the 22 , the 22 can be concealed if you need to take it out on the streets, I am right handed so I used to carry mine in my left back pocket, from 5 to 10 feet you shot at hip leval from your belt buckle, 5 feet or closer hold the gun tight to the hip and shot from the hip. A man who knows how to use a knife has the advantage from 0 to 20 feet , so shot him if he is that close and you feel threatened. Your best defence on the street is to run. You are in a bad position right now , get what ever you can to protect your family and yourself. rick

Small size and velocity is the key there, Vulkyn. A 22.LR will. A .45 ACP may not. 9mm may fall between fibers and slide right through or be just big enough to not (I think .38 special and 9mm have similar ballistics. In general, rifles develop the velocity to penetrate something like this and most standard pistols will not penetrate much. A speedboat hull isn't much. The best sidearm for penetration is the FiveseveN,

(I cut one in half to show you the neutered version. The plastic tip wouldn't penetrate very well!)

but only with AP rounds (armor piercing, steel core, tungsten steel core even better. AP is getting harder to find every day - a reason to go with .308 or .223, more common AP rounds). Not many handguns can generate the velocity to penetrate much even jacketed. Hollow points don't penetrate much because they mushroom on dense targets though recent studies have shown that most hollowpoints DO NOT mushroom in flesh - I would read some studies or maybe Troy or Boston know. Don't assume a hollowpoint is better at releasing its energy into a soft target and it definately won't penetrate a hard target well.
I didn't know about this hydrostatic shock Troy mentioned. I read up on it and it scares me!
"shot him (a man with a knife) if he is that close and you feel threatened." - that scares me, too! The guns mentioned above are canons.

[rberrey]

My point is there is alot to know as far as what and when to do it when you draw a gun, and there are different guns best suited for different needs. At this time he needs a home defence weapon wether his home is a boat or house. The weapon should stay at home,and his mind set should be firm as to what his responce will be if he points the gun at someone. It will be better not to have a gun than to have one if he cannot use it if the time comes to do so. He can carry a knife on the street and have the advantage from 0 to 20 feet, he dosent need a gun. He can carry a small 22 if he wants and pop a shot off at someone 100 yds off and hope they duck long enough for him to run away. He has lots of options on what type guns to buy or how to use them, but few if he needs to use one today. If you cant get a cal that you can resupply then buy one that has a 20 round box of ammo with it. In WW2 there were about 20,000 rounds spent per kill, in vetnam about 200,000 rounds spent per kill, in a robbery what rounds are in his gun at the time will either protect his family or not. If things go south of that a few extra rounds wont help.Buy what you can find 12ga, 22, 9mm, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, would be my first chorses in your area. rick

[P Flados]

Penetrating a hull with a gun intended for shooting people is actually more than a simple discussion.

Hull construction has never been a "one size fit all" thing. Some hull construction methods are probably 10x more bullet resistant than others. If you are planning on making hull that is hard to penetrate, you are probably making choices that are really different than for any other use. If you have a standard hull, many have large areas that are probably not all that bullet resistant.

If you are planning on penetrating a hull you would need to plan for the worse. Bullet choices are a big deal in this area. Most are not designed for penetration through hard stuff. Penetrating fiber material is also different than penetrating things like metal and ceramics. The bullets made for going through fiber based stuff combine hard core designs, pointy shapes and slick surface treatments to slide between the fibers. Most semi-auto handguns are not really all that good for this type of stuff. Some of newer cartridges might be more capable than most older designs, but I am not sure how easy getting the right ammo would be. Guns in the magnum revolver class are probably much closer to what would be potentially effective. In Rifles, an AK is probably better than any pistol, but a 7.62 NATO (308) is better if you want to inflict serious damage to more that just personnel.

If you were asking a real military type what he would bring to the task (say going against the pirates currently active is several parts of the world), I am afraid that a previous (and somewhat rude) post got it right with the 50 caliber full auto (minus the gratuitous scantily clad operator shown).

[Submarine Tom]

.50 calibre Desert Eagle... duh.

-Tom

Hmm. This is getting a little weird but... A knife has an advantage from 1 to 20 feet? I believe that you believe that. You may have even seen that written by some expert but seriously, give Rambo AND Hattori Hanzo not just knives, but machetes, samurai swords, tomahawks, whatever. And me a .45ACP at 15 feet. I'm walking away. They are not. It is just silly to think otherwise. Also, a knife is a poor weapon unless the opponent is an inferior combatant and is a poor weapon against a stick. Hard to hang onto a knife with broken hands and severe lumps on your head (neck)!
As far as "things going south" and "a few extra rounds" not helping. Sorry, sometimes somebody struggles through a shot or four and there may be multiple attackers. With a pocket pistol, I carry two extra full mags in another pocket. With a standard size sidearm, I have them nearby. The more the better and is a reason I am coming to believe a nine is superior to a .45 in standard sidearms, as much as I love the 1911. 17 rounds in a Glock 17 nine, 20 rounds in a FiveseveN, 13 rounds in a non Clinton Glock21 in .45ACP. Three guys coming, a lot can happen to those bullets in short order. You lean towards six cannon rounds in a wheel gun and removing my shoulder if you hit me, I lean towards keeping the guy with the wheel gun off balance with four or five holes through his head before he can level his weapon. To each their own. I do IDPA pistol competition and though there are more points scored for larger caliber, almost nobody competes effectively with a .45, even. I use a competition nine with an extended barrel and the lightest loads I can find (it is unfair to load light loads, in fact steel knockover targets are used and too light of load will show by not knocking over the targets). I can double tap on two targets before a .45 can get off an accurate second shot. Don't get me wrong - I do not want to get hit by one of the big calibers and will likely be running and trying to hit it from down the street somewhere. Passionate area, opinions on guns. Let's just say we're all right and not let this turn into a contest of opinions. - Mark