Going to America

[Frosty]

Well not yet but soon.
I was wondering because A few Americans have told me they have guns , one guy said he had one in his car and one on himself all the time and wont go out without it and he wont have trouble if he has it. He seemed a sensible sort of chap.

As a Brit tourist how can I get one, because I got a fly drive tour -thats where you land and get a car.

I have no frking Idea how to get to the Hotel but thats all they got so if I get lost or something ille need some protection.

Ille need a sim card map and a gun right? Can you get these at the airport.

Frosty, It's not as bad as all that. I have MANY guns but collect as hobby and investment. I only make a point to carry guns when I go to cities - even then, most folks get by fine without. The thing that keeps the crime rate down, outside of the recent drug/gang influx, is the criminal having to wonder who has a gun (we have a lower violent crime rate than supposedly peaceful Canada next door, for example). In short, guns make us safer here (proven time and again by communities banning guns only to attain a new crime spike) but any individual having a gun is not necessarily the deciding factor. Do a little internet search about the neighborhoods you intend to travel - avoid the bad spots and you won't have a problem. On the open highway, I have only run into good folks - think about it, the druggy, or whatever, is looking for his next fix/sale. He's not sightseeing the Grand Canyon!
That being said, I have clients from the UK who have guns here. I don't know how they got them and they may even be illegal but they feel that in the once-in-a-lifetime event of a problem, they wud rather see a jail than a funeral. The problem with this line of reasoning is that unless one is practiced and ready to use it, the thugs will sence a weakness along with the threat and it may create a situation where you are actually in more danger by packing. Of course, avoid Washington DC at night, South Chicago, East LA but you'll find that only the most messed-up inner-city drug addict wud rob a tourist and even they won't shoot for no reason. Foreign gangs here tend to have no respect for life but that's because whatever shithole they came from is so bad that they are used to death. You can buy a gun with no papers within a couple of days of getting to know almost anyone not a hippie. It will, I'm sure, be illegal to do it this way. Don't go one inch into Mexico with a gun - you'll be in the minority but you will be searched on the highway these days. Don't take a handgun into Canada.

[mcollins07]

Frosty,
I've will tell you that my first thought was this post was a joke.

If some one told you that they wanted to fly in and charter a boat for himself to skipper and family to crew, even though they had never sailed, what would you think?

You give the impression that you have never handled guns. And you want one as a tourist. If this is the case, you are safer not carrying one.

As a tourist if you want to experience the freedom of a hand gun, I suggest going to a commercial firing range. Rent a gun and shoot it at the range, then give it back to them as you leave.


~ Michael

[troy2000]

Frosty, I think Mark already said pretty much what I was going to say, between reading your post and finding time to answer it.

Don't get me wrong; I like guns. I have a collection of Mosin Nagant rifles that stretches from 1916 to 1959, plus miscellaneous other rifles, pistols, revolvers and shotguns.

But to begin with, in most places here it's illegal to carry a concealed weapon unless you have a permit. Even in areas where they're easy to get, it takes time. And not being a citizen would probably disqualify you, anyway. Carrying concealed without a permit is a criminal offense in most places. In some cities (like New York) it's enough to earn you a prison sentence, unless they take pity and let you plead down to a lesser change, then deport your butt.

There are plenty of places where open carry is theoretically legal, including California. But regardless of what the law might say, wearing a gun where people can see it is going to get you lots of unwanted attention in most of the places you're likely to visit.

All this, of course, is on top of the problems created simply by being from out of country. I haven't looked into the laws that would affect you, but it might not be legal for you to buy a firearm here anyway, unless you ship it directly home. Don't take my word on that, though; I'll research it and get back to you.

The real problem is that unless you're accustomed to a gun, and you've practiced with it enough to make your actions almost blindly automatic in a stressful situation, it's probably more of a menace to you and bystanders than it is a protection.

I occasionally carry a Czech CZ-50 if I feel the circumstances warrant it. But before I even thought about doing so, I spent hours and hours with it: not just shooting it, but practicing pulling and handling it in any position and any circumstances, until I felt I could probably handle it properly if I were sleepwalking--or had been hit on the head hard enough to make me groggy.

My dad once told me this about knives, but he could just as well have been talking about guns: "if you pull a knife and don't know how to use it, you're putting a dangerous weapon where your opponent can get his hands on it."

Most of the time, common sense will do you more good than a gun or a knife, anyway. Instead of arming yourself before you take a shortcut down a dark alley, stay the hell out of the alley. Don't wave money around in public; don't be overdressed for the area you're in; avoid walking alone late at night; finish your drink and move on if the bar you're in seems to be getting rowdy or tense; don't take gypsy cabs, etc.

And by the way, if you're going to be anywhere near me while you're here, be sure to let me know. I'll take you out shooting in the desert, or at the Rainbow Shooting Range south of Temecula if I'm home instead of in the desert, and we'll have a blast. While we're doing that we'll have a beef brisket smoking back home, to wash down with some cold ones when we get back.

[Frosty]

When I get off the plane and stand in the Hertz renta car queue I am ripe fat tourist with a bag full of credit cards passport travelers cheques etc etc .

I might as well have a flashing beacon on my head.

You fly in with your boots and hat ,wife waiting for you and you get in the Hummer and drive home. I am still standing thier like a dork . I need a gun more than you do, I dont want some black guy in a pom pom hat asking me for my bag as I walk to the hotel (if I get that far) .

Show him the gun and hes gone, thats what its about no? balance of threat?

Heaven help you.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Frosty

When I get off the plane and stand in the Hertz renta car queue I am ripe fat tourist with a bag full of credit cards passport travelers cheques etc etc .

I might as well have a flashing beacon on my head.

You fly in with your boots and hat ,wife waiting for you and you get in the Hummer and drive home. I am still standing thier like a dork . I need a gun more than you do, I dont want some black guy in a pom pom hat asking me for my bag as I walk to the hotel (if I get that far) .

Show him the gun and hes gone, thats what its about no? balance of threat?

Show him the gun, and he'll likely take it away from you and beat you with it; he has more experience at the game than you do. And what do you think the States are like, anyway? Do you honestly believe you're going to get assaulted and robbed in broad daylight in the middle of the airport, or in your hotel lobby in front of the concierge? It isn't like we have wolves roaming through the crowds, looking to take down the weak or infirm in the middle of the herd.

I was trying to give you a realistic outlook. The fact of the matter is that a gun is just a tool, and one you need to be proficient with if you want to use it. It isn't a magic wand; you can't just wave it and make trouble go away,

Frankly, you're probably in more danger in England than you will be anywhere in the States...if you can survive London and Heathrow, you'll do just fine here. Get this nonsense about wanting to be a pistolero out of your mind, stop listening to the fantasy life of your American internet gun-nut buddy, and enjoy your stay. Like I said, I'll take you shooting when you get here.

[troy2000]

Trust me on this one, Frosty: you aren't going to fly in and pick up a gun at the airport before you hail a cab, anyway. They don't sell them in vending machines or at the snack counters, in spite of the odd notions some of you Brits might have about the States.

[Frosty]

Im not hailing a cab though, that would be great, I have to get out in the street.

Well I understand what your saying but it has happened, maybe it did not meet your news but it has In uk. This fly drive thing is stupid and frightens the life out of me, the Americans have told tourist rentals to take the tourist markers off the cars as they were being targeted. Tourist trying to find the Hotel went down bad areas and never come out , never reached the Hotel.

You think im dumb enough to let the guy get close enough to take it off me. Any way what shall I do give him my bags with passport, cards and all my money. Would you,--or would you get your gun out.

Muggers do wait outside hotels looking for tourist, never been Manila? Ive shouted at them "I have nothing, leave me be"

Yeah Ok its not every day, so you say it wont happen, so why do you have them ? why cant I have one, then there will be no crime.

Just listening right now on Oprah as I type, the missus is watching,-- a guy takes a gun to the toilet always has 2 guns and a gun on his ankle.

I thought that was the whole point of a gun --
you got one they got one = no problem.

One guy has one,- one guy don't = problem

I don't = problem.

I thought that was the whole point of guns, I don't understand now. you got one but I cant?

Is'nt that "do what I say not what I do"

Actually, Troy, he's right. The international airports have installed these



But it wasn't until recently that they developed the technology to distinguish skin color. Now, they've successfully demonstrated that if a person places the back of his hand, his lips, nose or crank on the sensor (one patron at a time, please!), it can disallow sales to blacks and everybody is safe.

Pick up one of these little "Bettie bullet" shooter's and he can get far enuf to get explosives and a real gun before the marauding gangs take him down.

[Windmaster]

Originally Posted by mark775

In short, guns make us safer here

Ahem - Deaths (per 100,000) in the US from firearms are 11.66 making it in the top 4 in the world.
Compare that to England and Wales where the figure is 0.38.

My my reckoning that makes it approx 30 times more likely to be killed by firearms in the US than in the UK.
I don't think it would make you safer!

[Roly]

Lies, Damn lies, & statistics.

Of the 11.6/100k in the US,3.72 were homicides, 7.35 were suicides, 0.59 were accidently shot.
Of the 0.38/100k in the UK, 0.15 were homicides,0.2 were suicides, 0.03 were accidently shot.

i.e.
US shootings: 32% homicides, 63% suicides, 5% incompetence
UK shootings: 39% homicides, 53% suicides, 8% incompetence
NZ shootings: 15% homicides, 80%suicides, 5% incompetence

Looking at UK incompetence, Frosty, I would not pack a gun.

Have agood trip
.
BTW Don't be fooled by the 15%, our gun laws mean homicides are more primitive. Doubled in ten years. Still < half of the US. So much for ten yrs of a labour Govt. National PM has taken to wearing a skirt as well. God help us.

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by Roly

Of the 11.6/100k in the US,3.72 were homicides, 7.35 were suicides, 0.59 were accidently shot.
Of the 0.38/100k in the UK, 0.15 were homicides,0.2 were suicides, 0.03 were accidently shot.

Mmmmhhh... Well, I still read it as 25 times (homicide only figures) more probability to get killed in US than in UK, if the figures are correct.

[Frosty]

I was'nt meaning to start a gun argument about how safe they are of course they are not.

My point is that if its the citizens right to own a gun and I go there I had better have one too, other wise that is hypocrisy and thats very rare in Us.

Ide like to have one --you know I may just be in the wrong pace at the wrong time and need one, thats always a possibility -I don"t need to flash it around just keep it nice an warm until I need it.

What If a was in a 7/11 and there was a robbery and some kid was beating up a young girl, man I would shoot his balls off, "I say one can not have this sort of thing ole chap leave the young lady alone you blaggared or I will fire".

Psst, I would only shoot him in the kee cap or something but I would make him hand back the ginger biscuits and the Jaffa cakes he had just stolen and apologize to the young lady then take her for a cup of tea.

Cor blimey I cant wait.

I look a bit like Charles Bronson as well.

[rasorinc]

Frosty, you are not going to have any problem. Carry small amounts of cash, use credit cards and debit cards. Use your commen sense as you would in traveling around the far east. A money belt is fine so a pick pocket can't rip you off. Don't use travler checks there are money machines everywhere. Stay away from troubled areas. I've had carry permits for 35 years and in 36 states. Never pulled my pistol out once for protection. If your renting a car do not stop if you feel you are in a dangerous place. Enjoy, have a great time and just relax. If you have a pistol and have to pull it out it is to shoot to kill, not wound someone in the leg. You must have that mindset. Get a prepaid cell phone and you can call 911 anywhere for help.