Global Warming? are humans to blame?

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by BPL

Another problem is the lack of global equality. In China the average salary may be $14,000 US a year. If we take higher and lower and average out among the world population, would you be willing to live on $15,000 next year? It will take a long time for things to find equilibrium in the global economy.

It's not that hard to extend the model of what you are familiar with in the USA to the one world government idea.

Do people in LA, San Francisco or New York City make the same wage as your average neighbor does?

Did the wages in the USA find equilibrium?

No, they are as varied as can be. People are happy to make $10 an hour where I am right now. You would literally die trying to live off that in NYC or San Francisco.

There isn't even a wage equilibrium in the USA. Why would you expect there to be one globally?

Just take every example you can think of regarding a large, one world government and think, "what is that issue like in the USA?"

The USA is nothing more than a "one area government" holding together a collection of states, which hold together a collection of counties and towns. What's the difference?

Are you a citizen of your town? Your county? Your state? Your country? Or... are you a citizen of Earth?

It's just the final layer of the onion we are already in. Sure would be nice to have total freedom of movement in the world as a boater, wouldn't it? No customs, no immigration, no passports.

I really don't see many problem with the idea. It's just that for some reason, people (older people especially) are pre-programmed to think it's somehow a bad thing.

We ought to dismantle the US federal government if you think it's a bad thing to have one, united government.

Remember the US civil war? Was that fun, or is it better to be united as one people? Why not unite the entire planet as one people?

China and India would be the new California and New York. No big deal.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

Actually, a republic PROTECTS you from democratic tyranny. If two foxes and a chicken had a pure democracy, the foxes will have chicken dinner everytime!
Little Rhode Island (smallest state) has just as many senators as California, or Texas, or Florida, or New York. The 4 most populous states.
The electoral college prevents a massive (like California) state's popular votes running away with a presidential election!
A republic is BETTER than a democracy.
But Masalai is right! They're trashing our Constitution!
We need to vote the collectivists out of government, and put a true conservative government in. President AND congress. One that will DISMANTLE all the excesses of the last 50 years, and return the fed to a CONSTITUTION based, minimalist central government. States rights. Don't like how your state is run, change it, probably to resemble Florida, or you can move to Florida!

I kind of agree with some of your politics here, but Florida isn't the model. It's a pretty crappy state in terms of personal freedoms, sanctioned drug abuse (pain clinics), economic prosperity, sense of community and distribution of wealth (having a middle class). Basically, the weather is the main thing it has going for it, as well as the "stand your ground law", which is nice. Other than that... it's not so great. (sales tax, over active police on land and water, large prison population, few educated citizens, lots of violence, gated communities, dangerous ghettos, for fee access to wildlife and nature (East Coast), etc...

I'd also be much happier with a true democracy, even if I was the one on the chicken side of the vote. Why? Because it's fair. If you are on the losing side, so be it. You must accept that the majority of people are for one thing and your idea is not going to happen. That's society. That's the way it should be. (Think back to the Obama election win - you didn't want it, but it was fair and correct because the majority did)

I've said this before and Troy busted my chops for it, but I'd be in favor of a referendum government where each and every citizen got one vote on every issue that they could use, or not use, based on if they were interested in that issue.

Also, they shouldn't keep passing laws. If anything, we need to take thousands of them off the books and start over, making laws sparingly, not at the whim of corporate sponsors (such as the insurance industry).

[Yobarnacle]

In most of the world, you need the equivalent of a passport to leave the confines of your village and travel to the next!
In Mexico, actual name is The United States Of Mexico, to cross borders from one state to the next, (they have 30), you must show your federal ID card.

Do you think the world would be LESS restrictive?

Another consideration. The middle east is percieved a hot spot for terrorists right now.

I'm not going to argue is or isn't.

But if the USA dissappeared, our Constitution ripped up, how many "Patriots" with hidden caches of arms, would be rebelling against the WORLD ORDER? As an american, wouldn't YOU likely be suspected of being one of the "TERRORISTS" trying to bring back the USA!

If they suspected ME OF BEING AN ANTI-WORLD ORDER AMERICAN PATRIOT! How astute they would be! LOL

[BPL]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

even if I was the one on the chicken side of the vote. Why? Because it's fair. If you are on the losing side, so be it. You must accept that the majority of people are for one thing and your idea is not going to happen.

As the world gets smaller, does it have to be one size fits all? With different countries and cultures, if you don't like one, you can pack up and move to somewhere else, totally different. With one-world gvt plan, if you don't like what the world majority likes, you would have no where to go to choose something different.

People are happy to make $10 an hour where I am right now.

Really? People here figure $10 is about the same as unemployment
It's hard to get someone to show up for $20 an hour to do anything.

The way I see it we are moving towards Europe's level of safety and environmental protection. Doing so has us crying over lost freedom to make money and too high taxes.

If we imposed our work safety standards and environmental protections on China by bringing everything to one world level, all those factories would be out of business overnight. They work because of the difference in wages and regulations.

[Yobarnacle]

Also, they shouldn't keep passing laws. If anything, we need to take thousands of them off the books and start over, making laws sparingly, not at the whim of corporate sponsors (such as the insurance industry).

__________________
Hooray! TODO ACUERDO, SENOR!

We also need to force congress and senate to RETURN to voting under instruction from home legislatures. That eliminates all elitists Princes in government. Pulls their teeth! That also eliminates all lobbying and all back room deals, and is the way it was in the beginning of the USA!
BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION!

and eliminate regulations and regulatory agencies. If you want a law, pass a law. Not a bunch of regulations that nobody voted for.

[Yobarnacle]

But do you see ANY evidence that we are being driven like cattle toward global government? I see it.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

But do you see ANY evidence that we are being driven like cattle toward global government? I see it.

I don't know. Maybe. But, if we are dismantling the US federal government and just joining a larger (and better) one world government, I wouldn't have a problem with it. (so long as it's at least as good as the US federal government currently is - which isn't saying much! ha ha ha)

[BPL]

Much advertising spin from political shills like Yobarnacle who wants to move people to his position regardless of actual science or data.

[Yobarnacle]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

(Think back to the Obama election win - you didn't want it, but it was fair and correct because the majority did)

In 2008 I voted for Obama. He promised change. Bring the troop home first day. Take it to the bank. Close Guantanamo. REPEAL PATRIOTIC ACT.

In November, I'm voting at least twice. Once, cause I'm retracting my 2008 vote. And as many times more as possible, cause I want to toss him out on his ear! He's a LIAR!
No IDs needed at poll, right? I'll just get a list of names of democratic party leaders in Florida, and beat them to the polls. Won't they be surprised to find out they already voted for RON PAUL! LOL

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by BPL

As the world gets smaller, does it have to be one size fits all? With different countries and cultures, if you don't like one, you can pack up and move to somewhere else, totally different. With one-world gvt plan, if you don't like what the world majority likes, you would have no where to go to choose something different.

Agreed. Again, think about the USA as the model. You can move from one state to the next to get different local culture, different tax laws, etc...

I don't see why a one world government would be much different. Why not move from the USA to Switzerland, if you wanted to? It sure would be a lot easier to do if we had a single government than having to hassle through all the red tape it takes to make that kind of move now.

I would imagine it would be as easy as moving from state to state is in the USA now.

Really? People here figure $10 is about the same as unemployment
It's hard to get someone to show up for $20 an hour to do anything.

Yeah, it's pretty sad, actually. Even worse, the local labor rate is actually $7.10 or whatever minimum wage is right now. I pay my guy $10/hr because I felt bad about the going rate here. I am here to build my boat in what was the cheapest place to build (I had never thought I'd hire help). I am here because the real estate and HVAC costs were less than anywhere in the country. It was the idea place to build. The economy also happens to be completely decimated. Pretty sad. There are probably half a dozen businesses empty in the small town and the nicest building in town is the county courthouse and prison. The bail bond businesses didn't go under. Very strange place...

The way I see it we are moving towards Europe's level of safety and environmental protection. Doing so has us crying over lost freedom to make money and too high taxes.

If we imposed our work safety standards and environmental protections on China by bringing everything to one world level, all those factories would be out of business overnight. They work because of the difference in wages and regulations.

True. I agree. The first paragraph is interesting and I have no actual comment either way on it - no strong feelings about it. It's just true and that's that.

The second paragraph, would again, be like what I just did right in the USA. I'm from a place that would have cost me $30K per year to build the boat in rent and HVAC costs. Labor was like yours, $20+. No way I could even do the project at those levels. So, same with the factories in China. The wages would stay different (like they do between where I'm from and where I am building the boat), so the factories would still run. Just because two places are under a common government (and even a common currency in the case of where I'm building), doesn't mean the wages will be the same. They are wide and varied all across the USA.

A one world government wouldn't be a problem at all, so long as it was implemented well, IMO.

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

In 2008 I voted for Obama. He promised change. Bring the troop home first day. Take it to the bank. Close Guantanamo. REPEAL PATRIOTIC ACT.

In November, I'm voting at least twice. Once, cause I'm retracting my 2008 vote. And as many times more as possible, cause I want to toss him out on his ear! He's a LIAR!
No IDs needed at poll, right? I'll just get a list of names of democratic party leaders in Florida, and beat them to the polls. Won't they be surprised to find out they already voted for RON PAUL! LOL

Well I'll be damned!

I guess we agree on a lot more than we disagree on.

I see the current choices in politics a lot like this:

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-c...c-span9-debate

Either guy could be Obama or Bush Jr or Romney...

[Yobarnacle]

Originally Posted by BPL

Much advertising spin from political shills like Yobarnacle who wants to move people to his position regardless of actual science or data.

I'm nobodies shill BPL. I'm a PATRIOT.
That means I'm ready and willing to make enemies die for their beliefs!

[BPL]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

I'm nobodies shill BPL. I'm a PATRIOT.
That means I'm ready and willing to make enemies die for their beliefs!

You have a definite agenda.

[Yobarnacle]

Well, when I went to Viet Nam as a volunteer, they trained me it wasn't my duty to die for my country. It was my duty to make the ENEMY die. I was very competently trained.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

LOL. Sounds silly doesn't it?

Yes. Matter of fact, it does -- if you consider paranoia silly...

Save from what? Let's count. Dying oceans and an iminent ice age in the 70s. Campaign fizzled. Hole in the ozone. Fizzled. Global warming. Fizzling. Man made Severe weather. That's the latest propaganda.

This is a typical case of rearranging facts to suit your conspiracy theory, instead of working the other way around.

Fact: there was never any 'campaign' or scientific consensus -- or even credible scientific argument -- in the 70's about a coming ice age. There was some speculation by a few scientists, that was magnified by sensation-seeking journalists and picked up on by some sci-fi writers.

Comparing that to the situation today is silly too....

Fact: the ozone hole siituation seems to be improving because we did something about it, rather than because it was a fake problem. So throwing that into the mix is even sillier.

Fact: if you think the oceans aren't in trouble, you're either not paying attention or remaining willfully ignorant.

How about, financial collapse of ALL the world currencies, since YOU already have control? Who created the "bubbles" ? Viable strategem? The world will be forced to "Come together! Right now!" as the Beatles sang.

Umm... hasn't happened. Get back to me if and when it does.

None of this raises even a doubt in your mind?

Oh, it raises doubts all right -- mostly about your judgment.