Global Warming? are humans to blame?

[Boston]

Yikes, am I ever glad I don't bother with that nonsense anymore. The simple reality is that the burning of fossil fuels can be directly tied to the rise in atmospheric CO2 concentrations which are directly responsible for the warming trend CONFIRMED by the four major studies notes so many times in the past.

Its a no brainer people, more greenhouse gas = more warming, and we've seen exactly the amount of warming projected for the excess CO2 in our atmosphere.

[Yobarnacle]

Originally Posted by troy2000

Unfortunately, the central claim (highlighted in red) is false.That makes everything else in your post irrelevant, although I suspect that if I chased down each and every claim they'd all be pretty shaky....

Where is your data refuting the sun has been more active?
The only refutations I could find were diminshed light meter readings in Israel [attributed to atmospheric dust. In fact they said it was carbon pollution! ] and some lower evaporation readings in Russia.

Main Sequence stars are those that "burn" Hydrogen into Helium in their cores.
Get slowly brighter with age.
http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/...2/mainseq.html

http://science.nasa.gov/heliophysics...-data-centers/
check the sunspots. magnetic solar storms. it's the suns magneto-sphere that blows away cosmic rays that make clouds and cool us. More active sun, less clouds, =global warming.

[Yobarnacle]

Originally Posted by Boston

Yikes, am I ever glad I don't bother with that nonsense anymore. The simple reality is that the burning of fossil fuels can be directly tied to the rise in atmospheric CO2 concentrations which are directly responsible for the warming trend CONFIRMED by the four major studies notes so many times in the past.

Its a no brainer people, more greenhouse gas = more warming, and we've seen exactly the amount of warming projected for the excess CO2 in our atmosphere.

Your data is doctored, Boston. Your chart is fraudulent. The SIMPLE reality is, your hero Hansen is a discredited political hack making millions off global warming, while holding a government job at NASA as a climate scientist. Should be fired, tried and imprisoned!

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

Where is your data refuting the sun has been more active?
The only refutations I could find were diminshed light meter readings in Israel [attributed to atmospheric dust. In fact they said it was carbon pollution! ] and some lower evaporation readings in Russia.

Try actually clicking on the link I provided. I didn't put it there just because I thought it made my post look more believable.

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

More and more scientists are revolting against the global warming consensus enforced by government funding, the academic establishment, and media misrepresentation....

Baloney. What you're hearing is more noise from the American Petroleum Institute. It has aggressively ramped up its campaign against climate change lately, fearing its members' profits will be interfered with.

Meanwhile the scientific consensus on climate change is growing, not crumbling. Even the American Association of Petroleum Geologists is onboard and admitting the existence of anthropomorphic influences on global temperatures.

Meanwhile, you're back to the necessity of positing a conspiracy the likes of which the world has never seen -- one involving thousands upon thousands of scientists, academics, reporters and editors, politicians and government officials -- as your rebuttal to climate change science.

To what end is everyone involved in such a conspiracy? To impose some nebulous liberal, collectivist agenda that will imprison us all in green chains and destroy our God-given rights, make us walk to work, and force our children to do their homework by candlelight? Please.....

[Yobarnacle]

Billions and trillions of dollars in carbon taxes to climate scientists et al: to research a solution to global warming for one motive.
and they're being well rewarded NOW for maintaining the dogma. Look how much Hansen gets ON TOP of his NASA salary!

Oh, i did click on your link. been there many times before too.

[Yobarnacle]

The truth of Bostons tired too many times posted fraud chart.

[Yobarnacle]

Troy
Here are some links explaining connections between sun, cosmic rays, and clouds from the site YOU posted!
http://www.skepticalscience.com/cosm...al-warming.htm

here below:

http://aps.arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/paper.../0803.2765.pdf

http://aps.arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/paper.../0803.2766.pdf

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

Billions and trillions of dollars in carbon taxes to climate scientists et al: to research a solution to global warming for one motive.
and they're being well rewarded NOW for maintaining the dogma. Look how much Hansen gets ON TOP of his NASA salary!

Oh, i did click on your link. been there many times before too.

Apparently it never sank in, then. Because the actual data is there.....

But again: matching graph against graph, chart against chart, interpretation against interpretation and argument against argument is all just flogging the dong at our level of expertise.

The essential question is why you believe an entire field of scientific study is a fraud. A field, I might add, that's acknowledged and respected by scientists in other fields worldwide..... do you really believe the overwhelming majority of scientists are that clueless and/or that dishonest?

That was my original point, and you've never really addressed it. Instead, you keep setting off more and fancier fireworks..... which are interesting, but in the long run just a sideshow.

I remember when conservatives at least pretended to put their faith in science and facts, instead of in rhetoric, and believed education was good for people and for the country. Nowadays, they seem to have morphed into the anti-science, anti-education, anti-intelligence crowd. Anyone who has even a whiff about him of being better educated or more thoughtful than Joe Barfly down at the Dew Drop Inn is regarded with suspicion, instead of respect.

[Boston]

Its right out of the denialist handbook Troy, the revolving argument game also known as the Gish Gallop. Pure fantasy and obfuscation. Agnotology at its worst. Doesn't make a lick of sense, never did, never will. Its not even worthy of rebuttal with its ludicrously misinformed premises and assumptions. Not a moment of rational science involved in any of it. Conspiracy paranoia and more conspiracy is the excuse by which some refuse to change with the times.

The simple reality is that when 97% now more like 98% since they "confirmed" the consensus just a few months ago, agree in any science, its damn near a miracle. Scientists rarely agree, each click seems to prefer its own pet theories, unless that is we're talking climate change, then all of a sudden the level of agreement skyrockets and we see a near universal nod to the theory of Rapid Global Climate Shift.

Cheers
and my hats off to you Troy, but your wasting your time.
He aint going to learn
what he don't want to know

Cheers
B

[RayThackeray]

Wow, that nailed it!

Originally Posted by troy2000

I remember when conservatives at least pretended to put their faith in science and facts, instead of in rhetoric, and believed education was good for people and for the country. Nowadays, they seem to morphed into the anti-science, anti-education, anti-intelligence crowd. Anyone who has even a whiff about him of being better educated or more thoughtful than Joe Barfly down at the Dew Drop Inn is regarded with suspicion, instead of respect.

[RayThackeray]

How much do you get paid for cutting and pasting this rubbish?

Originally Posted by Yobarnacle

More and more scientists are revolting against the global warming consensus enforced by government funding, the academic establishment, and media misrepresentation. They are saying that solar cycles and the complex systems of cloud formation have much more influence on our climate, and account for historical periods of warming and cooling much more accurately that a straight line graph of industrialization, CO2, and rising temperatures. They also point out that the rising temperatures that set off the global warming panic ended in 1998.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by RayThackeray

How much do you get paid for cutting and pasting this rubbish?

Let's not do that, Ray. Although we may disagree with Yob, I don't doubt his honestly. He's posting stuff that seems to back up what he really believes....

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by troy2000

I remember when conservatives at least pretended to put their faith in science and facts, instead of in rhetoric, and believed education was good for people and for the country. Nowadays, they seem to have morphed into the anti-science, anti-education, anti-intelligence crowd. Anyone who has even a whiff about him of being better educated or more thoughtful than Joe Barfly down at the Dew Drop Inn is regarded with suspicion, instead of respect.

The funniest I have seen lately is the suggestion that the name of the
new Aardman movie was changed for US audiences because they will be
turned off by the word "Scientists".

In the USA...
The Pirates: Band of Misfits
Everywhere else...
The Pirates! In An Adventure With Scientists

[Yobarnacle]

Originally Posted by troy2000

The essential question is why you believe an entire field of scientific study is a fraud. A field, I might add, that's acknowledged and respected by scientists in other fields worldwide..... do you really believe the overwhelming majority of scientists are that clueless and/or that dishonest?

That was my original point, and you've never really addressed it. Instead, you keep setting off more and fancier fireworks..... which are interesting, but in the long run just a sideshow.
.

I'm sure, probably MOST scientists are ethical, intelligent dedicated people.

But who is making these spurious graphs? I know Hansen is at NASA. He's the head honcho climatologist there.

Who gets their name in the headlines? The top global warming activist scientists. And the media exxagerates even what THEY say.

The folks actually doing research and maybe seeing their data accurately portrayed or skewed by corrections. What can they say, except parrot the party line.

[Yobarnacle]

Okay.
Gentlemen.
Let's look for points of agreement.
Then we can agree to disagree where we disagree. Say that fast 6 times!