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View Poll Results: Do you believe
Global Warming is occuring as a direct result of Human Activity. 107 51.94%
IF Gloabal Warming is occurring it is as a result of Non-Human or Natural Processes. 99 48.06%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1651  
Old 02-17-2012, 09:53 AM
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hoytedow hoytedow is offline
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Hogwash. You must think you have been put on Earth just to tell other people how to live their lives. You must be miserable that no one obeys you.
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  #1652  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:08 AM
tugboat tugboat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBuilder View Post
I still say one if the largest factors (which for some reason is being completey ignored) is the change in the planet's color from green to black.

It happens on roofs, parking lots and roads.
Great point!- its been sung about and warned about by prophets-teachers, guru's, scientists, philosophers, poets, survivalists, quantum theorists, and the common observant man...

".....you dont know what you've got till its gone, paving paradise, puttin' up a parking lot!"
Joni Mitchell 1970
  #1653  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:15 AM
tugboat tugboat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytedow View Post
Hogwash. You must think you have been put on Earth just to tell other people how to live their lives. You must be miserable that no one obeys you.
talking in the voice of Robert Deniro: yo ...you talkin' to me?

my take on it is people dont want to accept responsibility--which then means they gotta clean up thier act. its easier to deny than to admit they have been at fault...like those kids in that book "lord of the flies"- they just go and do whatever they want there are no consequences --till they regrettably go too far!...
  #1654  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:20 AM
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hoytedow hoytedow is offline
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Talk to the hand. I make a very small impact on my environment, leaving the places I go cleaner than I found them, unlike the Occupy movement. What a bunch of mrorns.
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  #1655  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:26 AM
tugboat tugboat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytedow View Post
Talk to the hand. I make a very small impact on my environment, leaving the places I go cleaner than I found them, unlike the Occupy movement. What a bunch of mrorns.
hoyte im with you on this one...i try to do the same- in fact this is one of the reasons i like steam...it may still not be a clean energy but with wood its renewable - i love the water-so it bothers me when i see the great lakes- 3 ft lower than normal..where does trillions of gallons of water go anyway?
this tells me something is wrong when it does not return after ten years...
  #1656  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:35 AM
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The Earth is constantly changing but it is natural and not man-made. It is hard to define "normal" for the Great Lakes because before the Ice Age scoured the area there were no Great Lakes. Maybe they were an extension of the Great Plains? Water level dropping means evaporation or drainage in other ways. Evaporation combined with movement to colder areas results in precipitation. When this happens in very cold environment the result is frozen water. Look north. You will find it is accumulating there. Sea levels will also fall and exposed land mass will result from this. Crops will be harder to grow as it grows colder and areas distant from ice caps will get less rain while areas near ice will get more. The lakes will re-fill but with ice instead of water. Only the most suited for the conditions will survive or else be forced to move away or perish. Warmer is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes

"Winter 2009–10 was somewhat mild, the precipitation was below normal for the Great Lakes Basin. Mean lake levels are thought to be slightly below or at their levels of 2009. An ice jam in February 2010 dropped the level in Lake St. Clair. Since the jam was removed the level has come back to its average. As of March 2010, the lakes were at the level, or slightly below, where they were in March 2009.[11]"

Land on the Canadian Shield is still rebounding from the glacial period, but that process may not have completed prior to the onset of new glaciation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound
Attached Thumbnails
Global Warming? are humans to blame?-wikipedia-great-lakes-geology.jpg  
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  #1657  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:48 AM
tugboat tugboat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytedow View Post
Global Warming? are humans to blame?-wikipedia-great-lakes-geology.jpg

The Earth is constantly changing but it is natural and not man-made. It is hard to define "normal" for the Great Lakes because before the Ice Age scoured the area there were no Great Lakes. Maybe they were an extension of the Great Plains? Water level dropping means evaporation or drainage in other ways. Evaporation combined with movement to colder areas results in precipitation. When this happens in very cold environment the result is frozen water. Look north. You will find it is accumulating there. Sea levels will also fall and exposed land mass will result from this. Crops will be harder to grow as it grows colder and areas distant from ice caps will get less rain while areas near ice will get more. The lakes will re-fill but with ice instead of water. Only the most suited for the conditions will survive or else be forced to move away or perish. Warmer is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes

"Winter 2009–10 was somewhat mild, the precipitation was below normal for the Great Lakes Basin. Mean lake levels are thought to be slightly below or at their levels of 2009. An ice jam in February 2010 dropped the level in Lake St. Clair. Since the jam was removed the level has come back to its average. As of March 2010, the lakes were at the level, or slightly below, where they were in March 2009.[11]"
hope your right--i think the great lakes r the ultimate place for boaters...

but - i grew up on the lakes and - never has the lakes been so low for so long-- there were times the docks used to become awash... but now that never happens--you cna see the waterline marks where the water was and should be..its still down at least a foot--they are changing--i believe man made-- but- regardless of why--its occuring...we get rain here in february now- we NEVER had that till i was in my late 20's now its a regular occurance--this winter was warm again..not much snow--this is like the last three winters--snowfalls have been almost nothing--this is the north! not supposed to happen--not the old timers not me not anyone i know can remember when it rained in february or t-stormed here in march like it did a couple winters ago...rain in feb was unheard of--
  #1658  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:52 AM
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hoytedow hoytedow is offline
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Be careful what you ask for. You may get more snow than you bargained for.
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  #1659  
Old 02-17-2012, 12:14 PM
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Yobarnacle Yobarnacle is offline
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tugboat
Everything is cyclic. You know this. Lake levels are result of winter ice & snow. Theres been less recently. Lake levels are also result of manmade controls such as locks, reservoirs, flood gates. More demand for electricity and water means more rapid draining.
If you want to make a case that the Army Corps of Engineers is causing problems while solving others? They are aware of it too!
http://www.nwd.usace.army.mil/docs/M...eviewPanel.pdf
The rocky mountauns had more snow and rain in 2011 than ever recorded since the 1800s. So the missouri river flooded in 2011.
Localized phenomenon over a ten or even 50 year period doesn't indicate climate change.
It's called weather.
Now! Just because I refuse to be panicked by the global warming doomsayers doesn't mean I'm an ostrich with my head in the sand. I'm exploring alternative energy for my motorsailer project.
Also I walk to the stores and markets to shop. Of course here in Mexico they are within walking distance. Suggest to your zoning boards small business in residential neighborhoods is good ecology.
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  #1660  
Old 02-17-2012, 12:35 PM
Boston Boston is offline
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mass extinction isn't cyclic, its caused by a number of different things and in the past its been triggered by events some of which can be measured and studied, those extinctions which do have known causes are well enough understood to know the why and how of it. Today we're going to add even more CO2 to the atmosphere. Add enough and we know in the past its resulted in mass extinction. We can also measure the amount of change it took to initiate those past mas extinctions, and many scientists ( yup with the best imaginable credentials ) are saying that we're at the tipping point NOW.

Its pretty obvious whats going on, in case no one noticed there is no debate and very very few detractors within the scientific community. But the oil an gas companies PR machine is alive and well within the public sector

The Heartland Institute gets exposed for the junk it is
its a great read over on the Desmogblog
http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-...denial-machine

Heartland PR outlet gets busted at there own game, leaked E mails tell the tale of funding and propaganda
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/H...uackery-118418

Quote:
For years we've watched as the corporate-funded "fauxcademic" group the Heartland Institute took tobacco-industry money, then argued that the industry's ties to cancer deaths were based on "junk science." They've been very active on the broadband front, taking money from incumbent ISPs and then arguing how there is no broadband price, coverage or speed issues, while also fighting tooth and nail against the rights of towns and cities to wire themselves.

The public health community's campaign to demonize smokers and all forms of tobacco is based on junk science.
-Heartland Institute
Heartland isn't having a very good week, with leaked documents and e-mails showcasing how the firm takes corporate cash to sow seeds of doubt about established science and indisputable data. While they have always hidden their funding, the documents show the company takes money from AT&T, Comcast and Time Warner Cable. The documents also show how they're well funded by corporations to attack climate science, particularly in the classroom.
here's another interesting bit.

Quote:
If you're familiar with the group's actions in the slightest, it is clear that "honest disagreement" has never been on the agenda. On the broadband side, Heartland has contributed to no limit of polluted discourse, using completely bogus science from other incumbent ISP-tied organizations to endlessly dispute clear data showing that U.S. broadband needs a lot of work. They were also instrumental in pushing the "Exaflood" myth, or the idea that the Internet will collapse from traffic growth unless ISPs get what they want (higher prices, no consumer protections, deregulation, no net neutrality rules).

While the climate side of the story will see the most contentious debate, the most interesting bit here on the telecom front is that the ties between the company and their incumbent ISP donors have been clearly highlighted. It's doubtful that anyone at AT&T, Comcast or Time Warner Cable will want to go on the record to discuss their involvement with such a group.
  #1661  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:36 PM
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http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...nt_co2_levels/

"Trouble is, we don’t know where the critical CO2 or temperature threshold is beyond which ice sheet collapse is inevitable," said Dr Overpeck. "It could be below 450ppm, but it is more likely higher – not necessarily a lot higher – than 450ppm.
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  #1662  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:44 PM
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Yobarnacle Yobarnacle is offline
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http://www.pnas.org/content/99/7/4167.full

It's generally "ASSUMED" that co2 drives climatic change but there is no correlation over 500 million years.
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  #1663  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:53 PM
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Yobarnacle Yobarnacle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston View Post
Its pretty obvious whats going on, in case no one noticed there is no debate and very very few detractors within the scientific community.
Who is the denier there is serious debate among scientists?
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...l_warming.html
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  #1664  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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While CO2 is indeed a greenhouse gas, it is a weak one when compared to water vapor. Rising temperatures may increase evaporation and therefore the amount of water vapor in the air, thus adding powerful greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere and accelerating warming. On the other hand, water evaporated by rising temperatures may form more clouds that shade the Earth and help to reduce temperatures. Whether future man-made global warming is catastrophic depends a lot on the balance of these effects.
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  #1665  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:25 PM
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vote is now 90 to 86
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