Global Warming? are humans to blame?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by hansp77, Sep 11, 2006.

?

Do you believe

  1. Global Warming is occuring as a direct result of Human Activity.

    106 vote(s)
    51.7%
  2. IF Gloabal Warming is occurring it is as a result of Non-Human or Natural Processes.

    99 vote(s)
    48.3%
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  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    looks like it, I'm pretty bleary from last night. Got in about 6am and might have got about 2 hours in before the dog decided it was time to get up. Its hard to get mad at him for being just to bloody happy.

    anyway looks like world natural gas consumption is about 115 trillion cubic feet

    [​IMG]

    gotta look up the % of Carbon but thats a damn lot of cubic feet.
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ok so we've got 115 trillion cubic feet and each 1000 feet produces 115lbs of CO2. ends up 13,225 trillion pounds of CO2

    from
    http://cdiac.ornl.gov/pns/faq.html

    so add that to the 71.66 trillion we came up with for oil and coal and you end up with 84.9 trillion pounds. We could add up a few other things but it might be becoming clearer just how much fossil fuels we produce each year.

    the reason I went through all this is so that we could all see there's no BS involved. Its as plain as the nose on Frosty's face we burn an astronomical amount of fossil fuels each year and its only getting worse.
     
  3. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

  4. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Interesting. How much of the carbon is released as CO2 and how much is released as CO or other carbon containing compounds? This is relevant to the discussion as only CO2 is a green house gas, correct?

    Also, CO is a very scary thing to have floating around everywhere in larger and larger amounts, though I have no idea what amounts we have, they should be spiking the exact same way as CO2 is, provided the CO2 spike is caused by burning fossil fuels.

    And PS for Boston: You forgot that when garbage in a land fill decays, it also produces methane. Have you ever spotted a "full" landfill? They usually look like an unnatural hill of grass. They have a bunch of pipes sticking out of the hill that allow the methane from the decomposing garbage to escape. Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas as well, correct?
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    yes methane is CH4 and is about 25 times as potent a greenhouse gas as CO2

    I'm still working on the numbers, I've got to reduce my 100% conversion rate to something a little more reasonable. At which point I should fall somewhere in the realm of what everyone elses findings were. Of course I'm spending about an hour on it and you can bet these other studies lasted months if not years. So I'm bound to be off somewhere as I've no one but Hoyt checking my numbers, scary thought eh.

    Seems like I come up with about 84.9 trillion lbs of CO2 from the three sources I've considered, these two studies I've quoted both come up with about 18 trillion although one of those studies doesn't run till present, so I kinda extrapolated the numbers out. My bet is I need to consider the combustion efficiency of each fuel. I might also need a bigger sampling of research to find the average findings of total CO2 production. I should also check my original data and see if I got a zero mixed up somewhere. pretty sure I have a factor of a hundred in there somewhere it doesn't belong. I'll figure it out.

    damn and I'm supposed to be going out again tonight in a few hours. Ugh I'm going to be paying for it tomorrow I can see it coming.
     
  6. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    ok I'm up from my siesta
     
  7. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    use their numbers and reverse engineer
     
  8. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    later
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    nah I found my error, it was in the second set of coal calculations, I used giga tons instead of megatons and I should have just used not let it confuse me and stick with billions of tons.

    I think I've fixe it but frankly I'm dog tired and probably going to blow off my date for tonight.

    I got about 42 billion tons and they got about 8 so my bet is the combustion efficiency and the % conversion to CO2 rather than soot, ash or CO brings that number down a lot. What I'm trying to do here is go through the numbers step by step and show that whats being reported is in general conservative estimates. Granted my methodology is going to be a lot more sloppy than in any of these studies but I should be able to get it close once I find all my errors and try and consider as many variables as they might have.
     
  10. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Ok well a little rather boring reading later and from what I can gather coal combustion is one very sloppy business. Very inefficient, but its hard to pin down an average. No one seems to have pulled the numbers together in a graph form for ease of presentation. but anything from 51% to 91% is realistic as far as I can see.

    [​IMG]

    so I think I can safely drop say 30% off my total for coal just in combustion inefficiencies

    which brings me down to 72.6 trillion lbs or 36 billion tons. So I'm thinking I could probably sneak up on this eventually.

    how about if I subtract for the the combustion efficiency of oil. which as it turns out is really hard to calculate. I'd have to break down a barrel of oil into its most likely uses and then determine the efficiency of each, average out those and consider the % of each item. I think I'm going to use the efficiency of the two main components instead. more than 3/4 of it is fuel type liquids like gas diesel kerosene motor oil. Stuff like that. So I'll try and average out those and go from there. but before I do that I should subtract for the amount of oil thats goes to products not intended as fuel. Although we all know they are likely to end up fuel eventually.

    hmmmm
    girls wanting to go out so I'm going to split for a while
    cheers
    B
     
  11. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Boston,
    If you want to do the calculations, by all means.
    If it's a pain? don't fas yourself.

    CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist
    knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps
    Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda
    Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu
    University in Japan.
     
  12. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  13. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

  14. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
    Posts: 5,857
    Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
    Location: Control Group

    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form


  15. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    I have my own personal satelite. It has been following me for 10 years. I acquired it when I proposed that 2nd amendment rights weren't put in the constitution so us cowboys could swagger around packing. It was to guarantee the citizenry the means to over throw the government. Founding fathers had just accomplished a sucessfull revolution. Further more, smooth bore musket and canon were the army's arms and citizens as well. Parity was the intent. That meant private ownership of nukes. I got my satelite within the hour.
     
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