Global economic situation for liveaboard cruising yachties

[Boston]

history of the Vietnam conflict
just about the time a million or so Vietnamese people starved to death at the hands of the Japanese ( tail end of ww2 ) the survivors or at least some of them formed a group and raided rice stockpiles, they were dubbed the Viet minh and accused of being "communist" by the Japanese the germans the British and then the Americans each in turn ( hell I even think I got the order right ) after they entered the political power vacuum following ww2, with huge public support I might add.

when various french cronies showed up at the end of the war to reassert french rule of what it considered a colony the Viet Minh held public elections and old Ho Chi Min declared the country independent and received a whopping ovation as well as a landslide victory

the alies including the Chinese decided this was not acceptable and the British took the south and the Chinese took the north in kinda a "you take that half and Ill take this half and when the French are back on there feet we'll both hand our halfs over to them" move

didn't work out to well and in the end you had the communist north and the "free" south

so here's were it really gets interesting
Ho kinda liked the Russian form of communism and had won a landslide victory in a fair election. when the french began to reassert themselves first thing they did with old Ho who had been completely reasonable and negotiating peacefully was to forcefully expel the Viet minh from areas of french occupation, turned out to be a bad move on there part but it was after all the typical MO of the imperialist rule.
The Vietnamese people rebelled god bless there tiny little souls and proceeded to kick everyone's ass.
that was the first Indochina war
what happened next was one of the bigest lies ever perpetrated by the us gov, the gulf of Tomkin incident. Later the us would admit it had faked the whole thing but at the time a phony attack on a us naval ship in the gulf was just the excuse for us troops to begin there destruction of the pearl of the orient. Nice eh. Why is open to debate but the US set up a puppet dictatorship and proceeded to insist there was some kind of line between this half and that half of Vietnam ( naturally the UN largely funded by the USA backed up the USA ) which the people of the country generally refused to recognize "one Vietnam" was a real slogan of all the Vietnamese at the time. for them it was a true war of independence and had little or nothing to do with communism until they realized the China and Russia ( who are by this time not allies ) would arm them against the Americans. Who by this time were ( from the point of view of the Vietnamese people at least ) randomly demolishing the entire country while at the same time almost making a game out of killing noncombatants in "pacification" raids on villages not considered to be with the proper sphere or even just thought to be just growing to much rice, which by they way is how they had previously paid there taxes and was considered a form of currency in the old school. Didn't mater to the Vietnamese all they really saw was that nearly any excuse would do to "clear and secure" the countryside
whole thing is beautifully convoluted with the Vietnamese paying a heavy toll stuck in the middle
personally Im proud of them for kicking everyone's ass and freeing there country
kinda reminds me of the Iroquois and there fight for freedom

thing is the USA were clearly the oppressors and the Vietnamese clearly the oppressed, the despots that moved into subsequent political vacuums left by all the years of war were only to be expected and in some cases were encouraged by outside influences however, left to themselves the come back staged by the people and the country as a whole has been one of the most shining examples of human achievement I think there is in modern history

Vietnam is definetly on my list as a must see before I kick the bucket

[hoytedow]

Viet Cong went into villages. If children showed smallpox vaccinations Viet Cong would cut of the limb.
That is not "despotism"?

[Boston]

well as I said there were various bastards encouraged and supported by both sides as is typical of the various colonial powers. I'm not sure if your suggesting I support that or not, obviously I don't. Thing to remember is Ho was a legally and fairly elected leader who was ousted for no other reason than the colonial powers wanted there colony back. Ignoring the will of the people and the rule of law completely, while at the same time seriously underestimating the fortitude of the Vietnamese people

seems there is enough blame to go around for multiple atrocities but in the end the Vietnamese people prevailed and Poll Pot along with a number of others were eventually defeated, again, to the credit of the Vietnamese people as a whole

I think of a young Egyptian that goes to the best engineering or architecture school in the US or Germany, determined to change his country's third-world status and do his part to bring prosperity to his people, he studies hard, gets good grades, and goes back, (Finally!) DIPLOMA IN HAND to mud huts, A smell you can smell before you can see land, depression and no job. His girl had an arrainged marriage and his second cousin is a hero for blowing up a bus in a market in Tel Aviv. He's pissed, learns to fly so he can crash a plane into a building of infidels (It's all their fault, after all!)
Always, having studied in liberal colleges under liberal profs and having seen, first hand, the failure of Native American societies, combine with a warrior spirit, and assume the worst of your country, Bos. You are the young Egyptian, but without the "young" and "Egyptian". Get off the reservation or do something other than whine for your people. Whining is SUPER-unbecoming to a proud Native-American.
P.S. - Notice one of the handguns that piece of **** used in the Ft. Hood shootings was an FN FiveseveN. It was all over the news about the "armor piercing" handgun and how it was the gun's and society's fault that a Jihadist acted like a Jihadist. Obama was giving a talk at a BIA or other Department of the Interior function shortly after the Ft Hood shootings. After giving a "shout-out" to Chief Somebody (and wrongly attributing a Medal of Honor to said Chief. I mean no disrespect for the guy but am not taking the time to look up his name - I do think he got a presidential medal, a civilian award, for something) and further acting like a Vegas nightclub act, three minutes into the speech, O finally mentioned the Muslim extremist and to "be careful to not jump to conclusions". You and Obama seem to have many of the same thought patterns about our country. I'm surprised that you are not a tremendous supporter.
I guess I'll go buy another brick of 5.7 x 28...they're gonna' want to take these guns first.

[masalai]

Frosty, In America (the land of lies?) unemployment is estimated using the original formula as in excess of 22%... (from a USA organisation calling itself "shadowstats")

http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayGsd.php and the links at the end are worth a look
http://www.gata.org/node/8012 "'Everybody knows U.S. gold reserves are leased and shorted'" - - - and that the government repositories are empty...
http://www.gata.org/node/8013 "Vietnam acknowledges trying to push gold price down" panic is starting to gain impetus...

[Boston]

actually the Iroquois are one of the most progressive of the 500 nations. There is no specific reservation as we never lost to the Whites but instead live still (and with virtually no crime I might add) on our native homeland although kinda scattered in various locations, my fave is the tract partially surrounding Toronto although the Canadians whittled it down to just 4% of its original they failed to drive us out and through legal means the tribes have begun taking back what is there's. We never did arranged marriages or at least not as a mater of course and although I definitely attended some of the best schools the US had to offer, I make it a point to always remember my heritage. Oh, we have great plumbing. No whining here just stating the basic history and giving some credit where credit is due to another people who fought for there freedom against seemingly insurmountable odds and one of the largest PR smear campaigns the west dad ever waged up to that point.

somehow I didnt expect you would react well to that Mark but the point is that even just simple history without any fluff and hype leads to an inescapable conclusion, one which all americans would do well to consider. The US fought against the freedom of the Vietnamese people, against the unity of there country and denied them there freely elected leader while at the same time killing hundreds of thousands of noncombatants. All for some fairly dubious reasons that still escape even students of the history.

[hoytedow]

Boston, We may not agree on a lot of things politically but know you this: I was raised in a home where respect for Americans of pre-Colombian origins was taught. Grandfathers from multiple generations back on both sides of my family took wives from this genetic group. Our wedding rings were handcrafted by Anpetu Takola Ku from silver, coral and turquoise. I consider myself a native American because although my skin is white, no one in my family has known any other home for over 200 years, some for nearly 400 years. My family left Europe gradually to build a better life in the New World, and any effort to push us back into Europe or into the sea will be vigorously opposed by any means necessary. I have always admired the Iroquois especially because of their contribution to the way our government was developed. I reject the term Native American as being divisive and meant to create a them vs. us mentality. We are both Americans. I don't call myself a Scottish-American, a Dutch-American, German or French American. I am just an American, like you are. Neither one of us picked our genetic makeup, but rather, we just happen to be what we are. Humans with shared likes on some things and differences of opinions on others. Globally, we are just humans, the same as T3, masrapido, mark775, masalai, fanie, manie or apex1, to mention a few, no matter from whence they came.

Peace through strength. Good fences make good neighbors, and good neighbors will open their gates for other good neighbors. Someday when I get to Colorado I'll buy you a beer. It will probably be waterfront property by then though as I have had a REALLY bad year.

[masalai]

http://theburningplatform.com/econom...what-its-worth - - scary stuff
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCdd.php?id=273 - - on a lighter vein
http://www.caseyresearch.com/ - - have you subscribed?

[Boston]

sounds nice H
when I was a kid everybody pretty much hated everybody else ( specially the grandparents ) and the folks seemed fairly content with that. Hell they even spoke french just to piss off my fathers folks ( who were English ). at least for a while till us kids started speaking Frenchlish at which point I guess they decided they'd had there fun and my mother decided to learn English ( she was Cayuga and only new French and a little Haudenasaunee ).

While it is true that all are equals, until all actually start acting like it, its doubtful to many natives are likely to jump at the opportunity of holding hands and joining a rousing chorus of kumbaya any time soon. Given the history and habits of genocide and theft that survives to this day. Got a long way to go before a collective state of equality is realized my friend, although, on an individual basis I give pretty much everyone the benefit of the doubt. I also give em all the rope they want, if they tie a noose with it and hang themselves I suppose thats there biz. Theory being that the truth of there attitudes will out.

interestingly enough getting along isnt, at least for me, agreeing on much of anything, but rather taking a look at the world through someones else's perspective

Good points Hoyt. We may all be more closely related than we thot! I, too, don't like the genetic breakdown but was merely making the point about the proud natives and at the threshold of looking native, there seems to be a pervasive "us vs. them" attitude. I don't get it but never really cared. The thing that bugs me is people living in this country and badmouthing it like a damned liberal. A proud warrior ("we never lost,..") if picking up anything from his ancestors, should know to negotiate from a position of strength. If one thinks having healthcare rammed down our throats is going to be devastating, just wait until we pay carbon debt to a world government to be doled out to every pissant country that didn't develope as fast. It will ruin us and it is because we (some of us) accept the premise that America is evil.
F you, Mas. Stop pretending to know anything.

[Frosty]

Mark you are a thorough bred American. You are every thing that America is accused of.

Bigotry , arrogance, dishonest, manipulating, war, terrorism, greed, ignorance, self importance, --did I say greed? just to make sure greed.

Many piss ant countries could not develop as quick as the US because you bombed them, or placed sanctions on them for importing cheaper and better goods than you can make, but don't you worry about that.

[Boston]

just for the record Mark. I am actually completely apposed to the carbon tax or any additional tax for that mater and have clearly stated that position several times. I am definitely in support of ending our use of fossil fuels as soon as possible and of exposing the industry as a whole for its wholesale destruction of the environment, that and maybe something more like a co2 settlement in which the energy companies that profited from there pollution of the environment are held financially liable to clean it up.
Im kinda surprised no one has pursued this angle cause it lands the responsibility for the problem square in the laps of the energy companies who produced it and who are pretty universally hated. I for one would like to see them brought down a notch or two and maybe even held accountable for there PR campaign intended to deceive the public about the dangers of Co2.

I find it interesting you have such difficulties with my sense of national pride however feel free to spout off yourself regularly "this great country" and "best country in the world" and the like While at the same time referring to others as "piss ant". sounds a lot like a double standard to me Mark and not a very attractive or thought out one at that.

what Im also seeing is that Frosty has moved to another country, learned its ways and walked in there shoes and seems quite content and accepted into there community. I hear a consistent inclination to defend there ways and there generosities and yet you seem to revile him just as much as the "dammed liberals" of which I am not by the way. So I ask you, why all the anger and frustration, you seem to find fault in all but the mindless flag waving ultra-nationals of your own ilk. Is the rest of the world and it various cultures and attitudes really all that scary. Sounds like a fear based reaction of anger towards anything different from yourself, or at least thats how your starting to come off.

I might also note that recounting history and bad mouthing are seldom the same thing, unless of course that history contains some large number of obvious lies and atrocities in which case all I can say is, truth hurts sometimes, deal with it, learn from it, maybe even try not to make the same mistakes again from it, but admitting it is the first step, on a long road to peace.

seems like a good note to end on
try as you might Im not interested in fighting with you Mark
so Ill just wish you the best
B

[WestVanHan]

With all the complaining about "liberals",and therefore communism,social services,etc, I wonder if he gives back the oil royalty (welfare,social assistance,grant-call it what you will) money he and his family receives.

Here's an article from 2008,concerning Alaskans:

"Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell announced Friday that every eligible man, woman and child will receive $2,069, thanks to dividend payments from the state's oil royalty investment program distributed annually. On top of that, the checks will include another $1,200 from the state treasury to help offset soaring fuel prices"

So a family guy,wife and couple kids will get about $13k in cash a year for the family.

BTW the "B49 bomber" was a prototype flying wing,and the "B57" was a light plane used mostly for recon.

It's the B52 you're thinking of.

[masalai]

So he has a printing press (to print all those cheques? lucky people in a lucky state - be careful lest Obummer puts out another tax just to collect that loot, as I understand the rest of the USA is in deep financial ****...

I am pleased to report that Australian Mango season is "full on" and I am starting to look like a mango.... Mmmmmm bloody lovely

Thank you all posters in this 'Global...' thread the tone and discourse is leading through group therapy to mutual understanding and information sharing... May you all feel the glow of "community and sharing"...

Todays links are
http://www.moneymorning.com.au/
http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/
both the above go well with some cheese and a good red wine (at least 26oz, to see you through in a calm manner)

GATA releases on 'youknowwhat' - - a favourite of mine
http://www.gata.org/node/8016 "IMF economists lament dollar-based financial system"
http://www.gata.org/node/8015 "GATA's Catherine Austin Fitts interviewed by GoldSeek's Chris Waltzek"
http://www.gata.org/node/8014 "Barrick is scurrying around apologizing for hedge book"

[Boston]

Thank you all posters in this 'Global...' thread the tone and discourse is leading through group therapy to mutual understanding and information sharing... May you all feel the glow of "community and sharing"...

Im laughing my ass off at that one mass
best wishes on your mango issues

B