Excuse me but there is a ghost on my boat.

[Mr Efficiency]

Ouch !

[Fanie]

Leo, such a bad case of denial...

The problem with the facts black on white proof scientists, and mostly everyone else think, expect and analyse within our reference framework. The rules (if any, but for the sake of our way of thinking) may be very different on the other side.

We are bound by gravity, matter, dependencies (eat drink breath), our 'way' of thinking and probably a host of other limitations. Now imagine each of the above does not exist, try thinking of shaking them off and eliminating their boundaries one by one.

If there is another dimension out there, one we cannot grasp the perception of due to our mostly two dimensional thinking and limited three dimensional thinking... what if there are more dimensions.

Perhaps one could explain it in terms that we do understand to some end. What percentage of your brain power do one use ? 20%... roughly and you are already so clever

Keep in mind that in the old days they burned people that knows what you regard as common knowledge today.

Now double that brain power to 40%, and people will probably brand you as a weirdo and a freak and everyone around you will be super retarded and dumb. They may not burn you this rime but they will keep you locked up in an institution "to protect you from yourself". Most likely...

Now double that again to 80%...

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Wynand N

Leo, try this for size and explain how a whole family can be loony. .

Oh come now- don't make it so easy eh?

[Mr Efficiency]

There'd be plenty of scientists who've experienced ghosts and poltergeists and God knows what, but kept a lid on it because they know it is the end of their career to speak of it publicly.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Fanie

Leo, such a bad case of denial...

The problem with the facts black on white proof scientists, and mostly everyone else think, expect and analyse within our reference framework. The rules (if any, but for the sake of our way of thinking) may be very different on the other side.

We are bound by gravity, matter, dependencies (eat drink breath), our 'way' of thinking and probably a host of other limitations. Now imagine each of the above does not exist, try thinking of shaking them off and eliminating their boundaries one by one.

If there is another dimension out there, one we cannot grasp the perception of due to our mostly two dimensional thinking and limited three dimensional thinking... what if there are more dimensions.

Perhaps one could explain it in terms that we do understand to some end. What percentage of your brain power do one use ? 20%... roughly and you are already so clever

Keep in mind that in the old days they burned people that knows what you regard as common knowledge today.

Now double that brain power to 40%, and people will probably brand you as a weirdo and a freak and everyone around you will be super retarded and dumb. They may not burn you this rime but they will keep you locked up in an institution "to protect you from yourself". Most likely...

Now double that again to 80%...

You are citing myths and complete claptrap as some kind of evidence.
For example, where did you get this "we only use 20% of our brain power"? What is this "other side?"

It is not up to scientists to prove a negative. Simple: you make the claims, you prove them.

Eric claimed to be able to photo the same phenomenon on a number of occasions with different cameras. If it's repeatable, then it's measurable in some sense. But, of course, a global conspiracy of scientists would stymie that evidence

Sorry, but you haven't convinced me that it is not the work of crackpots, well-meaning or otherwise.

Have you, Eric and others got the strength of your convictions to address
the AAAS, the Nobel Prize Committee, your local University?
Would you be prepared to stand up and say, "We have evidence of a spirit world. This blurry one's name is Elizabeth"

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

There'd be plenty of scientists who've experienced ghosts and poltergeists and God knows what, but kept a lid on it because they know it is the end of their career to speak of it publicly.

Yes, crack-pottery and lunacy could hurt their careers.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by bntii

Oh come now- don't make it so easy eh?

Genetics, mass hysteria, dodgy mushrooms, diseased rye...
Or pixies? Or bats in the belfry?

[Mr Efficiency]

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

Yes, crack-pottery and lunacy could hurt their careers.

For a scientist, you are being prety unscientific about this. Without evidence, there are no scientific conclusions to be drawn. Not deciding as you have, that it is just bullsh!t. For decades, I'd have seen it pretty much the way you do. Maybe for a couple of decades I had no opinion one way or the other. Things change when the evidence presents itself to you repeatedly, startlingly, and uncannily. It is real, but you should not believe me or anyone else about that. Just admit you know nothing of it, that would be a more scientific approach.

[rxcomposite]

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

There'd be plenty of scientists who've experienced ghosts and poltergeists and God knows what, but kept a lid on it because they know it is the end of their career to speak of it publicly.

Remember the true story movie "A Beautiful Mind" by Russel Crowe? A brilliant professor who was perceived as a lunatic until he admitted (upon the advice of the Psychiatrist) that he was imagining things?

All's well that ends well. He was admitted back to the university.

[bntii]

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

Genetics, mass hysteria, dodgy mushrooms, diseased rye...
Or pixies? Or bats in the belfry?

IN my own case the whole clan is was bred to be crazy and raised to be mad.

Perfect storm of genotype and phenotype eh?



Ghosts are a cultural ideal- spectral beings floating about in the mist is a learned explanation taken from the soup of ideals current in our societies.

These ideals have traction and long histories in our cultures.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

For a scientist, you are being prety unscientific about this. Without evidence, there are no scientific conclusions to be drawn..

Eric claims that he does have evidence.
I'm asking for scientific confirmation of extraordinary claims.
What's unscientific about that?

Originally Posted by Mr Efficiency

For decades, I'd have seen it pretty much the way you do. Maybe for a couple of decades I had no opinion one way or the other. Things change when the evidence presents itself to you repeatedly, startlingly, and uncannily. It is real, but you should not believe me or anyone else about that. Just admit you know nothing of it, that would be a more scientific approach.

No, thanks. I prefer to call it the work of crackpots and charlatans.
Eric's spooky, ghosty area is accessible. He reckons there are ghosts there,
and that they appear regularly. It seems pretty easy for independent
scientists to confirm the claims.
Millions of dollars beckon, not just from Randi and the skeptics. Fame, fortune, new industries. The US would become the envy of the world for
this discovery. Eric owes it to the USA

[Fanie]

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

You are citing myths and complete claptrap as some kind of evidence.
For example, where did you get this "we only use 20% of our brain power"? What is this "other side?"

It is not up to scientists to prove a negative. Simple: you make the claims, you prove them.

Eric claimed to be able to photo the same phenomenon on a number of occasions with different cameras. If it's repeatable, then it's measurable in some sense. But, of course, a global conspiracy of scientists would stymie that evidence

Sorry, but you haven't convinced me that it is not the work of crackpots, well-meaning or otherwise.

Have you, Eric and others got the strength of your convictions to address
the AAAS, the Nobel Prize Committee, your local University?
Would you be prepared to stand up and say, "We have evidence of a spirit world. This blurry one's name is Elizabeth"

Just to explain something, for what it's worth.

Sit your dog down and explain multiplications to it, you know simple math.

Now just for the sake of the argument think if you were the dog, and there is something out there with a very different perception than the one we are able to grasp...

I'm not saying it is so, I'm just trying to bring the thought home. Like I said before, we are bound by the walls that we build around us and the ceiling height we determine ourselves.


Another thing. I suppose that you also do no believe that you have an aura, the space of consciousness around you ? You know when someone you do not see or hear moves into that space, it is an awareness that is not connected to our normal senses.

Ever stood somewhere (even in a crowd) and suddenly you get that feeling that someone is looking at you... and when you look you see someone a ways off looking at you. Maaany people can tell you this happened to them.

So there just may well be something more than just the piece of moving meat "you" are in that you operate as a blunt tool with the brain.

I do believe there are those that are just that. Similar to a fridge or an appliance... once it's time is over it's gone like scrap. But I also believe that there may be a life after the one we have now... nothing as good as me could just go to waste

[bntii]

"I cannot tell how the truth may be,
I tell the tale as told to me."
SWS

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Fanie

But I also believe that there may be a life after the one we have now... nothing as good as me could just go to waste

Soil bacteria send their thanks from the future.

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by bntii

"I cannot tell how the truth may be,
I tell the tale as told to me."
SWS

There's a sucker born every minute.
P.T. Barnum.