European yacht charter rules?

[gp333]

I live in country outside EU.. but wish know some EU charter yacht rules

Must yacht rented on charter have flag of country inside EU or not?

Can Hungary company rent BVI flag yacht and start charter from EU port?

Any more info about European yacht charter rules...

Originally Posted by gp333

Must yacht rented on charter have flag of country inside EU or not?

Can Hungary company rent BVI flag yacht and start charter from EU port?

Any more info about European yacht charter rules...

1) No, any flag is ok.

2) No, only the owner can get a charter permission, no subcharter!

3) Will look if I find my files.


Regards
Richard

[gp333]

Originally Posted by apex1

1) 2) No, only the owner can get a charter permission, no subcharter!

hm and if owner is company from BVI and not EU citizen?
Company from BVI (who is owner of boat in this case) still can rent yacht to any EU person and inside any EU port?

Originally Posted by gp333

hm and if owner is company from BVI and not EU citizen?
Company from BVI (who is owner of boat in this case) still can rent yacht to any EU person and inside any EU port?

No.

I do´nt have the rules and comments on my notebook, sorry I cannot provide further info or links.

Regards
Richard

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by gp333

hm and if owner is company from BVI and not EU citizen?
Company from BVI (who is owner of boat in this case) still can rent yacht to any EU person and inside any EU port?

Yes and no.. It's merely the tenants busines where he sails, not the boat owners. But there are some country specific laws that restrict the time a foreign (esp. not EU) boat can stay without tax or other implications..

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Yes and no.. It's merely the tenants busines where he sails, not the boat owners. But there are some country specific laws that restrict the time a foreign (esp. not EU) boat can stay without tax or other implications..

The tenant was not the question Teddy! The COMPANY has to be EU registered!
The operator is rarely the boatowner btw. The owner can be from elsewhere, as the flag, but the Charter business operator has to be EU.
The time for a private, non EU flagged boat is 6 month, before it HAS to be imported and tax to be paid. (or leave the EU)
But you hardly get a charter license without.

Regards
Richard

[gp333]

The tenant was not the question Teddy! The COMPANY has to be EU registered!
RE: ok, I was similar ask.. in my case Hungary company will organize charter (EU company)

The operator is rarely the boatowner btw. The owner can be from elsewhere, as the flag,
RE: owner of boat is BVI foreign company with foreign owner (no EU) and boat have BVI flag

but the Charter business operator has to be EU.
RE: as I was say, charter organize Hungary company

The time for a private, non EU flagged boat is 6 month, before it HAS to be imported and tax to be paid. (or leave the EU)
RE: here is my situation: this boat is not so rented in reality at all... this mean that boat is less than 3 months per year rented within EU waters!
Is possible than on long term work like this.. when we have client yacht go into EU waters and charter start. When job done yacht go outside EU waters. And every year same... yacht will be inside EU waters for sure less than 6 months (as yacht is used outside EU, only sometimes when have client for charter yacht go into EU waters)

But you hardly get a charter license without.
RE: hm explain, what missing in above plan??
I see on market lot EU charter companies that rent more than 50 yachts in charter (all yacht owners are foreign persons often)

Before we confuse the whole mess further, let me ask what is your goal? Charter or tax reduction?

Subcharter in a way I understand your plan is not legal.

Regards
Richard

[gp333]

Before we confuse the whole mess further, let me ask what is your goal? Charter or tax reduction?
RE: my goal is do it on best possible legal way.. this is not problem that charter company pay taxes inside EU to money company earn for charter!
Charter company pay to boat owner own earning and on difference on price pay EU taxes

Subcharter in a way I understand your plan is not legal.
RE: but how this is sub-charter?
http://www.odysseysailing.gr/bareboa...ts-greece.html
this company inside EU rent lot boats of other boat owners.. this is sub-charter for you?

Originally Posted by gp333

RE: my goal is do it on best possible legal way.. this is not problem that charter company pay taxes inside EU to money company earn for charter!
Charter company pay to boat owner own earning and on difference on price pay EU taxes

That was not to understand, sorry. Could you say it again please in other words? Or just answer my former question: charter or tax saving?

RE: but how this is sub-charter?
http://www.odysseysailing.gr/bareboa...ts-greece.html
this company inside EU rent lot boats of other boat owners.. this is sub-charter for you?

They do NOT "rent a lot of boats"!!! These boats are owned by EU individuals, and this company operates the charter base. That is the common way to do this business. (some operators own their boats though)

Regards
Richard

[gp333]

thnx for real help.. and final meaning: :-)
ok, and any solution if boat is not owned by EU individual? can EU company rent boat of not EU citizen inside EU every year if boat is less than 3 months in EU waters?

Originally Posted by gp333

thnx for real help.. and final meaning: :-)
ok, and any solution if boat is not owned by EU individual? can EU company rent boat of not EU citizen inside EU every year if boat is less than 3 months in EU waters?

Forget about this 3 month period.

When you re- enter the EU after having been there for 6 month, you can be lucky and may stay for another 6 month, but you can be much surprised too, when the customs officer asks for the tax immediately! And it is (surprising but true) in the hands of the officer how he handles the issue!

And still the question was not answered...............

..why?

There is nothing wrong in saving tax. But we would save time to focus on that, instead of turning in circles around charter rules.

Regards
Richard

[gp333]

why?
RE: hm why? have one yacht that is bigger and owner hard find charter to pay 30.000EUR for 10 days of charter. If he find client once per year he is happy.. and he on other side can not wish rent on charter at all (he rent for charter once per year to cover yacht maintenance costs).

To be more precise if charter happen yacht is 10 days in EU waters during 1 year once per year..
you know why now... how he can handle legally this one charter per year?
as first he is not EU citizen and yacht have not EU flag... he have no reason pay any taxes in EU at all. But usually EU citizens ask this charter as yacht is very near EU waters stored.

you know all of all.. how help him?

[CatBuilder]

Ok, I have a question that I'd like to put into this thread also. It is of the same exact topic, so I will not start a new thread.

What are the charter rules in the EU pertaining to my particular situation?

1) I'm a US citizen
2) I'm a citizen of Ireland
3) I will have a US-flagged vessel
4) I would like to do term charters (overnight) in the Med
5) I am both owner and operator of my charter company

The requirements are:

a) No VAT tax on the boat
b) Legal charter operation for un-inspected vessel

Questions:

1) To avoid VAT taxes, but to comply with other taxes, should I set up my charter company as an Irish company or an American company?

2) I understand about having to leave EU waters, but I don't understand exactly. Exactly what do I have to do to keep my boat as a USA flagged vessel while operating charters in the Mediterranean and not have to pay VAT tax?

3) We will eventually cross back over the Atlantic to the Caribbean, but this may not be for 5 years. We enjoy Europe and the cultures there. However, we do not want to pay VAT on the boat, but we are not opposed to paying our proper income taxes to Ireland to eventually draw from retirement benefits there. Can we successfully operate a charter business without getting into problems with VAT and/or customs?

4) All of our charters are marketed and sold through the internet or referrals. There is no local advertising or any type of solicitation in any port we are in. Does this help us in any way?

5) In the States, we have "inspected vessels" and "un-inspected vessels." On inspected vessels, you work with the US Coast Guard to determine a number of passengers allowed on the vessel. There are some rigorous tests to be passed. On un-inspected vessels, you are limited to 6 paying customers on the charter. This type of "un-inspected" charter makes more sense for my wife and I due to the lessened regulations. Is there a similar breakdown in Europe, or does this vary by country? Also, what inspections are required, if any, for a 6 or less passenger boat?

Thank you to anyone from Europe who can answer these questions. Many forums have more Americans who have ideas about this, but do not have real experience. Clearly, there are plenty of Europeans on here, so maybe I might finally find answers to this complicated charter structure.

Originally Posted by gp333

why?
RE: hm why? have one yacht that is bigger and owner hard find charter to pay 30.000EUR for 10 days of charter. If he find client once per year he is happy.. and he on other side can not wish rent on charter at all (he rent for charter once per year to cover yacht maintenance costs).

Your English is a bit hard to understand mate. But I assume I got it.
One charter per annum does not even pay the insurance cost! Let alone the crew, mooring and maintenance!!! That is a mad idea, sorry.
how he can handle legally this one charter per year?

Not...

as first he is not EU citizen and yacht have not EU flag... he have no reason pay any taxes in EU at all. But usually EU citizens ask this charter as yacht is very near EU waters stored.
you know all of all.. how help him?

When the vessel is chartered in EU waters, the charter agent pays EU taxes, thats it.

The owner may be from Brazil, the flag Antigua, that is not the issue. (if the owner is EU citizen he MUST pay the Vat anyway)

The import tax is another animal.
Every yacht sold within the EU after 01.01.1985 has to pay the VAT of the country where it entered / enters the EU.
Travelling boats in private use with the owner on board, have the permission to enter without being taxed. But they have to leave EU waters after 18 month. (and these boats are not allowed to charter)
It is possible to travel EU waters again, but it depends completely on the officers good will to see that re- entering as a sailing trip or as a way to circumnavigate tax.
Especially in France and Italy some yachtowners encountered a terrible shocking situation when the custom duties were due immediately after re- entering.

Regards
Richard

edited: the period is 18 month, not 6!