The end of the world is near....... what Yacht will you build?

[longcours62]

As proposed by someone on this forum , I just finish to read " lucifer's hammer" (it took four day with my poor english !)
But for this type of "doom'sday' I can't even imagine one type of boat could survive at that !
Or may be "polar bound" if deep somewhere in the Patagonia canal's ?
And even in this book they forgot one "small" problem : after few undred nuclear weapons used and all nuclear power plants washed they just forgot ...radioactiity.
For this type of doom'sday the maximum I can do it is : cross my fingers

[Fernao]

I would build a junk boat.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Fernao

I would build a junk boat.

Shades of "WaterWorld"

It would have the advantage of not being 'desirable' by the bad guys.

I have heard that if you travel a lot, you should put bits of gaffer tape on your phones and cameras and laptops, so they look broken. Thieves rarely bother with them.

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by rwatson

Everyone wants to go to sea
To feel the oceans sway and roll
The curving sail, and being free
is the cure for a pressured soul.

The first of the steps required to enroll
is to buy a suitable boat
be sure to ask the kindly old salt
if the battered old hull will float.

All of the vessels you visit with hope
Are the gem of the owners eye
They only reason that they want to sell
Is their poor mum's about to die.

They laugh at the thought that a boat is hard work
They scorn the chandlery's bill
The mooring fees, fuel, repairs and new gear
Are all part of the true sailors thrill

The price of the boat as a very small sum
It'd cost fourfold for a new one
As a favour to you, they will throw in some sails
And replace the green rope with a blue one

The mornings so cold that you cant go on deck
The waves so big that you might break your neck
The sanding of varnish, the repairing of sails
The rusting of fittings, getting snagged on old nails
The smell of the bilges, declogging the head
The cleaning from salt, the decay of the lead
The painting of wood, the shining of brass
The caulking of portholes where the goo joins the glass
All this is the cause of the most wonderous glee
For all of the souls who seek freedom at sea.

Ignore the distress of the pitch black dark night
Where the sound of the surf on the rocks
Cannot be seen by your beams feeble light
It's just one of lifes sharp shocks.

The huge tankers horn sounding loud and quite near
But unseen in the fog and the spray
Is nothing important for you to fear
You're too small to get in it's way.

If you're peturbed by this list of endless long tasks, you can do what most sailors do
Find a cheap mooring to anchor your boat
Visit each month to make sure its afloat
And clean up the seabirds vile poo

And when you get weary of finding a crew
And you hear of an impending gale
Do what all of the old salts do best
Advertise "Great Boat for Sale"

i know its old, but its so good it should be read again.

[macka17]

Any sort of warfare involved with Fallout of any kind. On a Global scale.
The lucky ones. are the dead ones. I reckon.

Water unusable. food unusable. Sterility in 99% of usable crops.and people.
and everybody with a weapon taking from everybody with a smaller one.
Or none.
No thank's...

Natural disasters.
Look at a stable load carrying long lived vessel.
A large Fibreglass Cat Ketch in my eyes. with 2 x inboard and an outboard on rear.
A LARGE Full Fuel bladder floating behind would be nice too.But probably not really viable..
Lots of panels and wind Genny's with a coupla small desal units. Hand and Mechanical\motor operated.
No matter where. You need drinkable water for sustenance.
That'd have to be first requirement. With transport a close second..

Nice to dream. But 99% won't have availability. or resources to do much at all.

We. a lot of us in my age group. after going through the cold war. and Second World war prior to.
Set up with a boat\Yacht. Mine was 34ft Steel Cutter. with lotsa Panels. Desal and a permanent 3 month rotating supply of food. Fresh Tinned and dry.
Coupla suits of sails and repair gear.
were ready to bolt. and be self sufficient for a long time.
But modern warfare. on a scale big enuff to be global would. I think.
With these third world country's having access to nuclear.
Be a one way trip.

I'm 70. if it comes. I'll be looking for the front line. Make sure it gets me first.
Bin there. dun that thank you.

[longcours62]

Sure , we could imagine any kind of (big)"problems" , may be the "lucky ones. are the dead ones" but it is in human nature , not, it is in the natural way to anithing to trying to survive.
I don't believe at all a doomsday like hollywood like to make .(of course tomorow , even if I prefere after tomorow , an asteroide can hit the planet).
But 'just' for the brainstorming it could be interresting to give an idea of what could be a "doomsdayboat".
For exemple for Macka17 it could be a catamaran in fiberglass, for us a strong (like Polar Bound)) alloy mono hull.Sure in case of big fallout just the classic wooden boat could be repare just with wood, basic tools and muscles (like Spray orMarie-Therese II) but no problems us or Macka17 are old enought to thinking our boat wil probably survive longer than us....yesterday I saw one iron boat built in1894 and paint all is life with basic 'bitume'.

[tugboat]

i assume this poll ends just after the world does?

[Wavewacker]

Seems to me now, after an hour of reading here, that if the seas rise, there will still be land. Looking at some maps, looks like we will have beach front property in Arkansas and Missouri .

So many variables I'd stay where I am and use the boat to "get away" as necessary and return if possible, or hit land as needed, so I'll go with those thinking of a smaller craft, under 30' and a mono, beachable and easily towed, may not be concerned with towing regulations at that time.

Look at the flooding in La. there were mandatory evacuations, will you be allowed to tow a boat with the expected traffic jams, thinking time is of the essence and slower traffic may prevent those behind from getting out? I don't know, but I could see roads being restricted, to necessary supply vehicles as well. I guess if you're on the water already, getting there may not be an issue.

And what if they (remaining governments) began protecting shores with force? Keeping pirates and gangs away? If not governments, would the local populations take over and not allow you in? Look to some of the islands in BC where the natives control any landings on the islands....

I'd also think that no matter how well you might be armed, someone out there will have a bigger weapon, they could well have rockets, mortors or missles, such as rouge navies, armies or cartels.

And what about contamination in the water, oils, crude, nuclear, chemical plants, bodies of humans and animals.....not sure I'd want to swim in it or fish from it.

I'd say something smaller, that you could hide and island hop as necessary. Be nice if it could take a small motorcycle too! LOL

[Petros]

I would not be so worried about a "nuclear winter", that was a scare tactic cooked up by a lot of misinformed anti-war/anti-nuke activists 30 years ago. A number of studies were done by legitimate climatologists and defense specialists, they found that even in a worst case scenario, despite the lack of civil defense planning, 95-97 percent of the population will survive. there will little residual nuke radiation since modern weapons are more clean than the activists claim. The weather will only be slightly affected for one season. the real danger comes from the lack of preparedness in high population density areas, where you can have 1-8 million people with no way to get out, no sewer, no water nor power, and only about 3-7 days worth of food in the local markets. that is why I choose not to live in such an area. If you plan to evacuate by boat, better get to the marina before the other million plus people think of taking your boat from you. You will have no time to pack or stock it, you must get to it and get out before everyone else. Good luck with that.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Petros

I would not be so worried about a "nuclear winter", that was a scare tactic cooked up by a lot of misinformed anti-war/anti-nuke activists 30 years ago. A number of studies were done by legitimate climatologists and defense specialists, they found that even in a worst case scenario, despite the lack of civil defense planning, 95-97 percent of the population will survive...

I would tend to agree with you about 'nuclear winter', but '95 to 97% survival rate?

I don't think so.

Modern nuclear weapons are MIRVed, meaning they have multiple warheads.

This means that, instead of having one large warhead, you have several smaller ones with a typical yield of around 175 kilotons (about ten times the yield of the Nagasaki bomb). These are typically scattered to act as giant cluster bombs, to get around the square/cube effect (the blast moving equally in three dimensions, where the target is mostly two dimensional).

So, in a real superpower nuclear exchange, there will be lots of warheads scattered over a wide area. This would do a good job of taking care of suburbs. Most of an urban/suburban area, such as the tri-county area in Michigan, where I live, would be burned black or brown, meaning firestorms and conflagrations everywhere, not to mention searing heat and brutal shock waves from the blasts themselves.

I would be more comfortable predicting that in urban/suburban areas, such as where most people live (95 to 98% by some estimates), at least 30% of them would be killed out right and another 30% would die of un-treated burns and other injuries within a week or so. Maybe 10% would be un-injured and the rest would be able to recover over time (if provided the resources to do so).

For the get away boat to be feasible, you would have to have inside information that the attack was coming and have time to provision and get out of Dodge.

Or you would have to be able to harvest food and fresh water from the sea and, therefore, need minimal provisions. The things to stock up would be boat care products, which would probably be unavailable after the attack, such as adhesives, caulk, and bottom paint.

Most likely, though, if you live in an urban/suburban area, you would be burned or crushed to death, or die a lingering death from injuries you managed to initially survive.

[michael pierzga]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I would tend to agree with you about 'nuclear winter', but '95 to 97% survival rate?

I don't think so.

Modern nuclear weapons are MIRVed, meaning they have multiple warheads.

This means that, instead of having one large warhead, you have several smaller ones with a typical yield of around 175 kilotons (about ten times the yield of the Nagasaki bomb). These are typically scattered to act as giant cluster bombs, to get around the square/cube effect (the blast moving equally in three dimensions, where the target is mostly two dimensional).

So, in a real superpower nuclear exchange, there will be lots of warheads scattered over a wide area. This would do a good job of taking care of suburbs. Most of an urban/suburban area, such as the tri-county area in Michigan, where I live, would be burned black or brown, meaning firestorms and conflagrations everywhere, not to mention searing heat and brutal shock waves from the blasts themselves.

I would be more comfortable predicting that in urban/suburban areas, such as where most people live (95 to 98% by some estimates), at least 30% of them would be killed out right and another 30% would die of un-treated burns and other injuries within a week or so. Maybe 10% would be un-injured and the rest would be able to recover over time (if provided the resources to do so).

For the get away boat to be feasible, you would have to have inside information that the attack was coming and have time to provision and get out of Dodge.

Or you would have to be able to harvest food and fresh water from the sea and, therefore, need minimal provisions. The things to stock up would be boat care products, which would probably be unavailable after the attack, such as adhesives, caulk, and bottom paint.

Most likely, though, if you live in an urban/suburban area, you would be burned or crushed to death, or die a lingering death from injuries you managed to initially survive.

Gee...in a nuclear incident ten percent of the population would instantly die behind the wheel of their car ,on the auto route , when their gps chart plotter goes haywire and they drive into a ditch.

Planes falling out of the sky...train smash ups....

..... millions of stock market gamblers would jump out of windows after their Iphone dies and prohibits trading

Millions more would have heart attacks watching the mushroom cloud on TV.

Imagine the shopping trolley stampede fatalities at Walmart !! and Banks ...WHOA !!

[Wavewacker]

Michael, I think I saw that movie!

I'd look at the situation, a boat may not be the answer. Let's assume a boat is the answer, then what?

Take to the high seas or gunkhole in remote areas using the boat as shelter and transport only when you need to move down stream?

I was kidding about the motorcycle!

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Wavewacker

Michael, I think I saw that movie!

I'd look at the situation, a boat may not be the answer. Let's assume a boat is the answer, then what?

Take to the high seas or gunkhole in remote areas using the boat as shelter and transport only when you need to move down stream?

I was kidding about the motorcycle!

The boat could be used to get to distant locations that are inaccessible by the vast majority of survivors.

The boat should have all or at least most of these properties:

1.) must be able to make progress upwind under sail alone (wind power will always be there, not so sure about fuel)
2.) must have decent carrying capacity of say 1000 lbs/person,
3.) should be simple and easy to maintain with crude tools, or be so robust it will last years with only slight maintenance (ferrocement, GRP, Aluminum, well coated steel, and of course wood),
4.) should be able to navigate shallow water and ground out between tides,
5.) should have some blue water capability, as blue water can act as further barrier for other survivors, and
6.) it should have an engine with enough fuel to last months with sparing use.

There should be equipment aboard such boat to extract food from the sea, as it may have to stay out there for a very long time.

[Petros]

Sharpii,

That is a much more reasonable approach. I would say the ideal situation is where you live and work close to where such a boat is available, and than have a "vacation" home in a remote area that can be reached within a day (or two at the most) of sailing or motoring said boat that has no other access except by water.

You would not need a very large boat for such a plan, the boat is only the means to reach your "survival home", which should be well stocked for long term self-sufficiency. This actually less costly and more viable than some of the suggestions here for large complex live aboard boats. Both the "vacation" home and the boat can be enjoyed any time, and both have useful functions in an emergency. After you use up your fuel supply a sail boat is still useful to gather food/fish/materails, explore the area, etc. Many have sailed around the world in relatively small sailboats without a motor, it would be hard to say they were "self sufficient" since they depended on restocking at each port of call.

There would be a lot to say for an all wood boat built using simple hand tools with minimal purchased items. If all the cleats, blocks and hardware was hand made and kept simple, you could replace/rebuild every part on the boat with locally available materials. Keep it small and simple and there will be much less maintenance. You would not want to live on such a boat, but it would be very useful for local trips to gather food or materials and it will not require fuel to operate. Add a couple of large canoes and you would be set.

[michael pierzga]

Guess there are all kind of scenarios.

For instance if Homer Simpson spilled coffee on the nucleat powerplant control panel and the reactor began to glow, it would be nice to have a fast skiff , a full tank and a cooler of beer to make a quick getaway