Did application of naval air power go horribly wrong?

[FranklinRatliff]

http://www.combatreform.com/p6mseamaster.htm

[Wellydeckhand]

Great stuff......... Seaplane is what Indonesia Need....... knew that long time ago........ the govt. think its outdated but not on the function for the geography application........ Such a pity.

Nice Thread

[kach22i]

That is a great link, an old idea, but you don't want sea water on your jet aircraft day in and day out.

Smaller faster ships with amphibious assault craft and VTOL jump jets and helicopters are what the US Navy is going to build - it's in the future budget proposals. Also look up "Sea Basing".


The Littoral Combat Ship
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lcs.htm

The LCS is an entirely new breed of U.S. Navy warship. A fast, agile, and networked surface combatant, LCS's modular, focused-mission design will provide Combatant Commanders the required warfighting capabilities and operational flexibility to ensure maritime dominance and access for the joint force. LCS will operate with focused-mission packages that deploy manned and unmanned vehicles to execute missions as assigned by Combatant Commanders.

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by kach22i

That is a great link, an old idea, but you don't want sea water on your jet aircraft day in and day out.

Smaller faster ships with amphibious assault craft and VTOL jump jets and helicopters are what the US Navy is going to build - it's in the future budget proposals. Also look up "Sea Basing".


The Littoral Combat Ship
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lcs.htm

The Navy has no heavy bomber capability. The Air Force has heavy bombers but no bases close to likely war zones. A seaplane heavy bomber would give the Navy heavy bombers AND put them close to where they're needed.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by FranklinRatliff

The Navy has no heavy bomber capability. The Air Force has heavy bombers but no bases close to likely war zones. A seaplane heavy bomber would give the Navy heavy bombers AND put them close to where they're needed.

Interesting point, but even the B2 flying across the world doing several mid-flight refuelings is going to use smart bombs and not massive carpet bombing. Things like laser guided weapons, GPS, fuel air bombs and even cluster bombs have changed many missions. When was the last time anyone carpet bombed a city or Naval fleet?

[FranklinRatliff]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Interesting point, but even the B2 flying across the world doing several mid-flight refuelings is going to use smart bombs and not massive carpet bombing. Things like laser guided weapons, GPS, fuel air bombs and even cluster bombs have changed many missions. When was the last time anyone carpet bombed a city or Naval fleet?

Ask the Taliban the effectiveness of a CIA operator having a B-52 in his hip pocket.

Fighters are much shorter ranged than a B-52 or B-1 or B-2 and cannot carry anywhere near the amount of ordnance.

[antonfourie]

Do you think that they would be able to make a seaplane "stealthy", if not it would not be much use in today's war theatre, the kind of SAM's that they have would shoot it down in a second.

[FranklinRatliff]

Pretty sure they could make a stealthy seaplane.

The F-22 is stealthy and it's a freakin' battleship.

[SailDesign]

Having grown up in a country where the Navy had ships, the Air Force had planes, and the Army walked or drove on the ground, the whole idea of giving the Navy planes makes me laugh. Whatever next? The Army using boats (Oh, sorry, you guys did that, too, didn't you?)
Steve

[yipster]

not mentioning the counter counter measures

edit
sorry thats was to quik and easy, saunders roe ( also has(had) a test tank ) catalina's and so is good stuff

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by FranklinRatliff

Ask the Taliban the effectiveness of a CIA operator having a B-52 in his hip pocket.

Fighters are much shorter ranged than a B-52 or B-1 or B-2 and cannot carry anywhere near the amount of ordnance.

I'm sure loading bombs on to a B-52 sized sea plane in Sea State 6 will be a joy to all involved.

War and the mission do not wait for fair conditions. Bad weather is the attackers friend this century - messes up that thing called radar and visual confirmation.

[Bergalia]

Quote: "The invention of the military seaplane, like the tracked tank, the Amphibious Commandos, the Hurricat, the Landing Ship Tank, were all the brain-childs of Winston Churchill, no doubt the greatest man of the 20th century..."
One assumes the above opening statement was made with tongue firmly in cheek - or else the author is guilty of a grave fault in scholarship.
None of the above were 'brain children' of Winston Churchill - and there is overwhelming evidence that he was far, far, from being the greatest man of the 20th Century.

And may I further suggest that the whole concept of aerial bombing is based on a false premise. Bombing of any awful description does NOT win wars. (Hiroshima and Nagasaki may just be exceptions.) It is the footsoldier, troops on the ground who wrest final victory. Bombing for the most part does little except stiffen the resolve of the victims below. Need I cite Berlin, London, Hamburg, Coventry; Korea, Vietnam and latterly Iraq...
The only benefit of bombers is to the shareholders of the manufacturer. Big is beautiful(ly) expensive - but what the hell, it's only taxpayers' money.
No Navy needs Bombers, nor any Airforce nor Army.

[safewalrus]

Originally Posted by Bergalia

Quote: "The invention of the military seaplane, like the tracked tank, the Amphibious Commandos, the Hurricat, the Landing Ship Tank, were all the brain-childs of Winston Churchill, no doubt the greatest man of the 20th century..."
One assumes the above opening statement was made with tongue firmly in cheek - or else the author is guilty of a grave fault in scholarship.
None of the above were 'brain children' of Winston Churchill - and there is overwhelming evidence that he was far, far, from being the greatest man of the 20th Century.

He did however see the potential and utilise it! Thus giving the 'free world' a chance at getting through the predicament they were in at the time until matters took a turn for the better, which again luckily, and thanks to brilliant leadership from such as Mr Churchill (and Mr. Rooservelt amongst others) victory was won. There again looking at the mess being made by some these days was it worth it?

As the song goes "when will they ever learn?"

[StianM]

The soviet union had good schools and was the best in the worl in aerodynmics/hydrodynamics befour the end off the cold war.
They had some fantastic ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekranoplan

Now when the russian economi has broken it's spine the western worl has adopted the idea. Some researtch is hapening in Germany and the USA, but also others are looking at it.

http://flightship.info/

Maybe something for Wellydeckhand to try.
Please don't kill yourself

Cool video http://www.hypercraft-associates.com...0files/km4.mpg

More where it came from http://freespace.virgin.net/home.taylor/

[kach22i]

The soviets did do refueling test on ice packs, but found air-to-air much quicker and safer.