Dealing with pirates

[Fanie]

I dunno Manie. 20mm sort of has a nice sound to it. Kind of pronounce right.

The way things are here we will never be allowed to have such a weapon. They are currently very strict with those that have fire arm licenses. The poor shits trying to get everything done right and legally gets it left right and centre. Personally I don't think it is worth it to do anything legal in this country. There are so many penalties when you stay within the law. It just keeps adding up and up.

You are of course exempted off all this if you have an unlicensed firearm, drive without a car license or live in any building you just move into, you just don't tell anyone and don't get caught.

[Tug]

Somali pirate arrives in New York to be tried in U.S. federal court
Last Updated: Monday, April 20, 2009 | 11:34 PM ET Comments22Recommend5The Associated Press
The sole surviving Somalian pirate allegedly involved in the hostage-taking of U.S. commercial ship captain Richard Phillips arrived in New York late Monday, hours after his mother appealed to U.S. President Barack Obama for his release.

Abduhl Wali-i-Musi was surrounded by a dozen federal agents as he arrived in the city and is expected to appear in federal court on Tuesday, U.S. officials said. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

Investigators have determined that the suspect is at least 18 years old, one of the officials said. That means prosecutors will not have to take extra legal steps to put him on trial in U.S. federal court.

Shortly after his capture, U.S. officials identified him as Abduhl Wali-i-Musi and said his age was between 16 and 20. Later, Defence Secretary Robert Gates said all four of the pirates who held Phillips hostage for five days off Somalia's coast were between 17 and 19. Gates did not specify the name of the captured individual

His mother insists he is only 16 and offered a different version of his name on Monday.

In a telephone interview with The Associated Press, Adar Abdirahman Hassan gave her son's name as Abdi Wali Abdulqadir Muse.

"I appeal to President Obama to pardon my teenager; I request him to release my son or at least allow me to see him and be with him during the trial," Hassan said from her home in Galka'yo town, 750 kilometres north of Somalia's capital.

Hassan said her son was coaxed into piracy by "gangsters with money." Though no charges have been publicly filed yet, the suspect could face charges that carry a maximum sentence of life in prison.

Wal-i-Musi was taken aboard a U.S. navy ship, the USS Bainbridge, shortly before navy SEAL snipers killed the three remaining pirates holding Phillips hostage on a lifeboat launched from his cargo vessel, the Maersk Alabama.

The government had considered handing Wal-i-Musi over to authorities in Kenya, which has an international agreement to prosecute pirates.

Officials decided to send him to trial in New York in part because the FBI office there has a history of handling cases in Africa involving major crimes against Americans, such as the al-Qaeda bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa in 1998.

Since the hostage standoff on the high seas ended more than a week ago, U.S. authorities have been examining details of the case, particularly Wal-i-Musi's age.

Rarely is someone younger than 18 put on trial in federal court, and to do so, prosecutors must take a number of additional legal steps to assure the judge that the defendant belongs there and not in juvenile or state court.

Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer, said he has been in discussions about forming a legal team to represent the Somali.

"I think in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas," said Kuby. "This man seemed to come onto the Bainbridge under a flag of truce to negotiate. He was then captured.

"There is a question whether he is lawfully in American custody and serious questions as to whether he can be prosecuted because of his age."

© The Canadian Press, 2009

[Fanie]

That makes about sense. When you find one red handed on the job there will always be another to protect the criminal.

What I want to know is where is the somali authorities in all this. Seems they are happy about their pirates new found income.

If that is the case then the US are blunting their teeth buggering around with individuals. Sort the somail gov out for allowing pirates, and hold them responsible for the cost.

If they don't have it to pay financially then chop a few hands off. You have to find a way to lever the situation or it is only going to get worse. In the countries they chop hands off, nobody but nobody steals anything. They guys here that has been there says it is an unbelievable experience if nothing gets stolen from you.

Ron Kuby, a New York-based civil rights lawyer..."think(s) in this particular case, there's a grave question as to whether America was in violation of principles of truce in warfare on the high seas,"
"There is a question whether he is lawfully in American custody and serious questions as to whether he can be prosecuted because of his age."
I'd release him on the streets of the U.S., fly his mother, nay, the whole f'ing village of Galka'yo Town over... in exchange for life in prison for that lawyer.

[Hi THERE!]

Hi. I've read the first four pages of this thread and find it very interesting and useful so far. To save time I'd like to just post this question here at the bow of the thread so it will garnish the most attention.

I need to know about what type of ships pirates usually operate in for a screenplay I'm writing.

Could they have a larger mother ship with a 30. cal that they could mount to the front of it when they wanted and take it down later? Would they have speed boats on the side that they could drop into the water when they wanted to enter into high pursuit?

What is the top speed of a vessel like that?

Would they have scouting ships that would roam the sea, finding targets which would then report back to the large mother ship (possibly harbored) that would launch an attack? Or would they cruise the sea in the larger mother ship and then launch their attack from there?

Did these recent Somalian pirates just roll up on that large boat in a life boat with an out board motor???

Here we go: Pirates are believed to be using "mother vessels" that are parked far out into the sea to launch smaller boats to attack and hijack passing ships, it said. Somali pirates fire rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons "indiscriminately," it said.

from: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/new...-first-quarter

[Fanie]

I first want to know how much sympathy are you going to implement for these pirates in your screenplay ?

[Hi THERE!]

Well, not much.

[Fanie]

Can we trust you ?

It would be much more effective for the pirates to have a .30 mounted on the speedier attack vessel and keep the mothership out of range of what every transiting ship should now have (Note: Ranging equipment [Bors] is not real useful here but tracers are. One needs to be able to see the trajectory of semi-auto, or auto(!) larger than .30 cal and the human hand/eye can make target and moving skiff come together). Escorts are coming as soon as Maersk, et. al., consider the lives of the crews of value. I could put a ship and weaponry there that no pirate will mess with for $20,000 a day plus per diem fuel/food/water and never fire a shot. What the F is wrong with these companies?

[Hi THERE!]

Right, remember Portager's rig from page 2: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/att...hantom_top.jpg

Okay so they'd have a larger mother ship with a speed boat that had the 30. cal on it.

Could they have the speed boats hanging on the sides of the ship? What would be an example of the type of ship that would be used for the mother ship? Is it even called a ship??

[rasorinc]

The pirates are using RIBs as attack craft. Size 18' to 24' These are being towed behind what the news is calling Mother ships.
RIB = rigid inflatable boats usually with a fiber glass or aluminum bottom and powered by 1 or 2 outboard engines. Blow out the inflatable tubes (20" to 24" in diameter) and they sink.

[Brent Swain]

They stay afloat but lose their maneuverabilty, and stability. I opened up a US coastguard inflatable once with a fishook and they left quickly, but remained afloat.
Brent

[Hi THERE!]

What would the mother ship be? Could you put a 30 cal. on the RIB?

With modern commercial sonar today, or even with higher grade stuff, how soon can you see a ship on the water on your sonar before you'd see it with your eyes (20/20 vision looking through bonoculars)?

Is there sonar jamming software? Do pirates often jam sonar? How fast do these mother ships go?

How fast do you think a RIB could go with two outboard engines; carrying 3 men, a 30. cal machine gun and some light weaponry?

[Fanie]

He he... I don't think you need 20/20 vision to see with binoculars, the problem is rather you cannot watch everywhere 24/7. If there are other boats in the area, how do you know it's friendly or not ?

The sea is a big place. Even when you call for help, it may not always be close by, so if someone responds it takes time and organization to get to where you were. If the boat is out of international waters, it is also a problem to go into another country's coastal waters without permisssion, and being a military boat or hellicopter or whatever even the more so.

Even in international waters, if the crew is held hostage how do you get them freed and get rid of the pirates. The friggin marines you see in the movies are like our speed cops. Never where you need them

Inflatables can be quite fast, a 60hp one can probably do between 50 and 70km/hr. As far as I know a big ship can do around 60km/hr, but also cannot really maneuver so easily. A tanker can have a 60 / 80 km turning radius. It cannot swerve out to avoid another boat going to it's path. They do attempt to outrun the pirates but it doesn't seem to always work.

Most ships probably give up if an rpg7 or another rocket gets pointed at them. If they do get blowed up it's no loss to the pirates.

Also, I don't hink it's always a matter of the one big ship chasing the other big ship that deploy the inflatables to give chase. You often see 'fishermen' go about their business. When you look away and back again you may well look into the barrel of some gun. It's not only big boats that gets taken, it's everyone they can take something from.

[rasorinc]

Hi There, Google military ribs Orca has some good pictures.