Dealing with pirates

[dionysis]

I would think that hugging the Australian coast through the Torres Strait would be quite safe. I doubt that Indonesian pirates would take the chance of attacking in Australian waters.

I would approach the Philllipines from the east pacific, retrace my steps slightly and skirt eastern New Guinea, visit Australia etc, then cross the Indian Ocean. That way you avoid the "southeastasianblackspot".

Googling this morning I came apon this info:

[Mikey]

Interesting Piracy Report, good reading. Thanks for finding and posting it! I believe you and I was wrong, Torres Straight is safe as long as you stay in Australian waters.

From what I hear here, approaching Singapore from the East, and then follow Malaysia’s coast line to Thailand and Burma should still be OK. There are attacks, sure, but moving day time only, the risk of anything happening would be extremely small.

My biggest worry is getting from Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean (without rounding Africa), any suggestions???

Mikey

[mackid068]

Don't have an ostentacious looking vessel. Perhaps bring a heck of alot of flare guns or Very pistols?

[Jack D Davis]

Do you have statistics on that, wb? Any data to suggest that a physically aggressive response really is likely to be more effective and/or less dangerous in most cases?

In 1943 after the start of WWII (for US) my father was drafted into the Army. I was just 2 years old and my brother about 6 months old. My mother told this story until the day she died and never changed it over the years.

After Dad left for boot camp, Mom was sitting on the couch and noticed a movement in a window. Looking quickly, she saw a man staring at her through the window. No phone, she ran into the bedroom and got Dad's rifle. She knew nothing of guns. Didn't even know if it was loaded. But she sat on the couch and polished that gun with a rag for hours. The next morning the man's foot prints were there by the window in the soft dirt. She always believed that gun saved her (and her babies) from, who know's what.

You won't find this in any statistics......nothing happened. No police report. No news story...nothing.

Very difficult to know how many times a gun has saved a life when the very presence of a gun may be enough to stop a crime. What doesn't happen, rarely makes the news or statistics in a study.

Why plan to be a victim? I would plan not to be a victim.

[Mikey]

Must say that I have changed opinion a little anyway because of this thread mackid68, 3 rechambered flare guns are still "legal" so why not bring them?

Thanks for sharing your story, Jack. Just showing weapons (made of wood or plastic or whatever) may deter some pirates, wouldn't do it if they had already shown their arsenal though.

Would hugging the Saudi coast line moving toward Suez be safe? Still leaves getting past Yemen though.

Mikey

[mackid068]

Maybe try airsoft guns...they fire plastic pellets and can be very realistic (though they won't hurt...)

[dionysis]

Thanks Jack, and you have made an important point. There are no single or easy answers: use avoidance if you can, take your chances as you must. As Mikey's last question reveals: sometimes avoidance is not an option. What then?

Your suggested approach, and I respect it, is to attempt to deter would be pirates say, from approach through show of arms. This surely would be a usefull thing to do, and I agree that deterrence has worked in a many many cases. But what if show of arms does not deter them. So then you fire the weapon.

If you do, what could perhaps have been merely a robbery on the high seas, turns to a darker violence.

I suppose it all comes down to the situation at the time. If the pirates are many, and have lots of guns, then perhaps the best option is to go passive and pray. If on the other hand the pirates are few, and amatuers, then showing and even fireing may and probably will deter them.

This would be the approach taken by the majority, and on the face of it looks like common sense.

The other bits to unravel though are:

1. The circumstance where in the process of deterrence someone is killed, or wounded. A life is taken to protect goods?

2. A firefight ensues. Then courage and a better gun, all things being equal wins.

If there is a chance we may be attacked, our gut feelings drive us to avoid the situation, run away, threaten them, and then finally to fight.

In the Gandalf et. al. case, the person recounting the episode said that if his friend on the other boat did not have the presence of mind to ram the other pursueing boat, the outcome could have been different. They won through, but at the cost of two or more of their attackers being killed.

I don't have the answers.

[dionysis]

Mikey, could approach the Gulf of Aden from the open sea, and attempt it in rough weather, the rougher the better. Hard to do, but possible.

You would need to survey all piracy reports in the area first though.

[Mikey]

“But what if show of arms does not deter them. So then you fire the weapon.”

Well, if they show their weapons and I’m outgunned, I would throw mine overboard and make sure they see it. If the pirates aren’t amateurs and are armed, then I’ll lose for sure. Lose what? My life? Sometimes it is better to be humble than proud...

Rough Weather – Very good idea, dionysis. Wouldn’t worry about rough weather, that I can prepare for, armed pirates is a different matter.

Mikey

[Frosty]

I have sailed up and down the staights of Malaca a few times. I used to carry guns but now I dont. I have aslo sailed down the coast of the Philapines, Borneo Brunai. I now cruise in the area of Langkawi. I have seen boats waiting for me and as I get close they pass very close to my bow, only to drop the fishing nets. This is because they think they have taken my good luck. I have seen small fast boats go so close to my bow I lost sight of them, they wear hoods on their heads, but thats to protect them from the sun.
I carry miles of polypropelene rope cheap light and a devil to get of a prop, and if the come again, I will lay more out. A spear gun, A flare gun with magnesium flares, put one of those in a boat and they will be coughing and spluttering for hours. If i see a boat that looks threatening i will show them a burst of speed--I try to deter them from the act before they take action. I have had the life frightened out of me by big fishing boats that come up on my stern so fast with more that 15 men on board only to wave and pass on by.
They want money not your radar display or your GPS and now that most cruisers use a credit card, sailers dont carry cash. Ships do, and thats what the professional parates go for.
I am not an expert on the subject but i do sail around on my own with my girl friend so I am concerned.

[saeble]

my first post... be gentle

~~~~~~~~~

I intend to get into quite a large vessel eventually and I'm sure that I'm going to be haunting some of the worst pirate waters for reasons other than sailing through. I have some vested interest in some projects on landfalls where piracy is rife. I may have little choice but to work out exactly what I want to do with potential pirate problems.

I've done some thinking on this subject and this is what I'd do.

I'd buy several 5.56 semi-auto rifles (from the USA probably), for the express purpose of firing tracer ammo, probably almost exclusively across the bows of those who need to know my ship/boat is armed. Tracer ammo is a very effective way to make it known that you have A) something thats regarded in some places as military grade ammunition, and as a consequence, probably military grade guns. At night its doubly intimidating, which is my chief aim. Fear and fear of the unknown works better as a deterrent than anything else.

If I can't instill fear with the above...

I'd also have a well disguised hand made mortar. Nothing says " F%#$ off !" like a large plume of black powder smoke on your vessel and an equally large plume of water in between you and some potential trouble. You don't even need the projectile to be explosive, the proverbial bowling ball is enough to cause significant cosnternation in your intended target... and woe betide a thin hulled boat that is incredibly unfortunate enough to be under your fall of shot.

If none of the above works... the mortar can be tipped on its mountings and end up as a volley gun as previously mentioned. Black powder and a large clump of discarded fishing sinkers will ruin anyones day.

By day... this mortar looks like, and can be used as, the mother of all rod holders..

If they still persist, and by now I'd hope that some of them are wounded or dead... there's these :

one for each crewmember :

http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/special.tpl loaded primarily with buckshot. Only someone who wants to be dead gets into a firefight on a small vessel with a rifle.

As far as secreting the guns... well thats why you build your own boat so you can build in the most cunning and fiendishly clever hidey holes.

I'm from the school of thought that prescribes to making your vessel not worth the cost of attacking it. Layering your defenses, making them extremely obvious and offering the pirate every opportunity to decide that disgression is the better part of valour, is your best option.

[Jack D Davis]

My days of sailing the high seas are over, so the issue of dealing with pirates is moot. I was raised around guns and have owned and used them all my life. Guns are a very useful tool and, like most tools, are only as good or bad as the person using them. If you know nothing about them and are not willing to learn and be profficient with them, it's best not to have them.

If I were going into dangerous waters, I'd carry several different guns for different situations. A high powered rifle for long shots, a short barrelled shotgun with 00 buck for closer use and a handgun for very close. I'd practice, first on the range until I was very familiar with each gun's operation, then on the water, where I would most likely be using it.

I'd take balloons, tie weights to them to hold them on the water then circle them with a boat, shooting until I could break them with regularity. Shooting from a pitching deck is not impossible. It's like shooting offhand (standing, no rest) only harder. It takes practice, practice, practice. Nobody can hold a rifle steady shooting off hand. It's a matter of timing. You time the shot to go off as the sights are passing over the intended target. Like throwing a football while running across the field and hitting a receiver going the other way.

The pirate has the same handicap as you do, so you have to be better at it then he is. I'd bet he doesn't want big holes in his body any more than you do, so if you're better at it then he is, more than likely, he is going to find easier prey. Criminals as a rule, prey on the weak, not on those that can defend themselves. All other things being equal, a burglar will take an unlocked door over a locked one every time.

Personally, I'd take a jail in a foreign country over being fish food if given the choice. My first thought is to survive. I'll worry about getting out of jail when the time comes.

I'd be prepared for the worst and employ those preparations as the situation dictates. Approach the job with forethought, common sense and the proper tools in the hands of a journeyman.

[mackid068]

"If I were going into dangerous waters, I'd carry several different guns for different situations. A high powered rifle for long shots, a short barrelled shotgun with 00 buck for closer use and a handgun for very close." I could agree with you to an extent, but if you're just sailing off the east coast of the US or anywhere in European/EU/American/Canadian/NATO waters, you're probably safe enough, so keep your guns only for those East Asian and Arab waters.

[Jack D Davis]

In that case, referring back to my first sentence, second paragraph, mackid068, if you're safe enough, then those wouldn't be "Dangerous waters" would they?

[mackid068]

yeah. that's true...