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Old 02-22-2008, 04:02 PM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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"CRUDE" oil, an absolute must see program !!!

Just saw this program ("Crude": 8-10 AM EST Feb 22) and it was simply the most well-done, informative and attention-grabbing program I've seen related to peak oil concerns. This program should be endorsed and viewed by every single member of this site.

"An Inconvenient Truth" this isn't. It's also not "Lost Worlds" or some other pompous History Channel program. It was concise, stuck to facts and experts and the production values were excellent. Two hours of enthralling oil and climate-related topicality.

See it. Spread it. It's important stuff.

Crude, The History Channel:
http://www.history.com/shows.do?epis...&action=detail

....other comments at Peak Oil Review
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic35978.html



An Inconvenient Truth", the climate change documentary that's been promoted by Nobel laureate Al Gore, has received mixed reviews from the global audience.

Regardless of whether or not you've seen the "Gore movie" or what you're already inclined to believe about oil and climate related issues, I highly recommend Crude: a new two-hour documentary that was aired earlier today on The History Channel. This is an unequivocally rave review. Crude scores 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.

I don't see anything new in terms of oil and climate related issues and concerns, but the program explains the science (much of it recent) behind terms like "peak oil", "greenhouse climate" and "global warming" in the most engaging way I've seen to date.

It's a landmark in terms of scientific narration and computer generated imagery and animation. From the way that oil was created in the age of the dinosaurs, through the emergence of the modern oil industry in Pennsylvania, to the game-changing discoveries in the Middle East and up to the present day, it puts the whole story together in the most viewer friendly and captivating style yet
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:59 PM
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do they talk about how the chemicals and "others" that come with the crude oil is as bad or worse to the enviroment then the oil itself?,,,,i drather ask a simple question like that before wasting time watching a movie that are full of facts ( usually for one side) and only told from 1 side of the issue.
TY brian
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by the1much View Post
do they talk about how the chemicals and "others" that come with the crude oil is as bad or worse to the enviroment then the oil itself?,,,,i drather ask a simple question like that before wasting time watching a movie that are full of facts ( usually for one side) and only told from 1 side of the issue.
TY brian
They don't attack oil as bad for the environment, but rather just document our absolute dependance on this product over the years for a VERY substantial portion of our living style....we are addicted to this product.

It traces the origin of this carbon product oil (and other fuels), its subsequent search and recovery by mankind, our subsequent use of the product, and how our reintroduction of the product into the earth's eco-system could result in a return to the conditions under which the oil was formed originally....a very compelling and scientific story that is without bias.

And this movie is COMPLETELY neutral as far as blaming anyone, or being one-sided. Believe me, it is the best presentation I have ever seen. And if you look around the web for other opinions I think you will find the same sentiments.

Interestingly, I beleve I saw a reference to this film having been made originally in Austrailia
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:11 PM
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Film Clip

I just found a video of this film on a Google site. The sound is screwed up for the first couple of minutes, but then it seems to straighten out

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5797240072407639740
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Interestingly, I beleve I saw a reference to this film having been made originally in Austrailia
Yes, it appears so.

Crude - the incredible journey of oil, from its birth deep within our dinosaur-inhabited past, to its ascendancy as the indispensable ingredient of modern life.

Oil is one of the most sought after resources in the world and sweeps into almost every part of our modern lives, yet most people have little idea of the incredible 160 million year journey it has made to reach our gas tanks and plastic bags. What is its history? Where does it come from? When will it run out?

Shooting on locations around the world and using CGI animations to visualize both science and history, Crude helps make sense of the oil-driven world we live in. It connects the dots between geology and economy; between the past, present and future. Crude takes a step back from the day-to-day news to offer a fresh perspective on the amazing fluid that powers our lives.

Crude is directed by Australian filmmaker Richard Smith.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:53 PM
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coolz,,,TY
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:54 AM
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Brian
Your glowing critique of the film was sufficient to get me to waste about 90 minutes. There is nothing new there. There are believers and non-believers. Nothing in the film will change people's minds.

To take the topic further:

It takes about 30 years to get a new technology accepted. If you cannot see a glint of something new now or a new way of doing things then it will not be in place in 30 years. So there is little chance the world will be weened off oil and other carbon based fuels before prices force alternatives. China and India are just beginning to industrialise by comparison with advanced economies. China is commissioning a 500MW power station every week - or its equivalent in larger stations now. Something like half of the world's steel production is going into China. Asia-Pacifica region will represent around 50% of air travel in 20 years - growing at 8%pa in China.

Think how fast we will be able to burn carbon based fuels when everyone has a 6000sq.ft air-conditioned house, a 2t BMW or Merc 4WD, weekly flight to see the football and a 1000HP cruiser for weekend recreation. The world will truly be a wonderful place.

So if you take the pessimistic view along the lines the film paints it is simply too late now. The change to conservation cannot occur at the required rate. No point in conserving the stuff. If you can afford to use it then better off using as much as you can right now. If you are a believer and, it is indeed running out, this will force the price up even faster; so it will accelerate change for different technology. Better to press the issue now than have a long, agonising decline that seems to be forming now. Short sharp pain is easier.

It is a little unfair though that the oil is located in the wrong place. (i.e. not on MY property) I also cannot imagine what possessed western goverments to recognise sovereignty of third world countries that are oil rich. We should just take the stuff for the common good. Why should all these backward places become world powers overnight simply because they happen to be in god foresaken places that are oil rich. High oil price is stuffing the US economy and making investors around the globe nervous - that hurts my back pocket.

Finally- So unless you want to waste 90 minutes don't bother watching the film - it adds nothing new.

Rick W.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:10 AM
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trust me you dont want oil on ya property,,,they dont pay much for oil in the ground that they have to pump,,,,then you got the smell of the brine water and oil,,then you got the spills that happen EVERY day,,,then if its on your property,,,,they just find a neighbor and pay him half of what they were gonna pay you and then they do directional drilling and get your oil from ya nieghbors land
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:33 AM
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I agree with Brian - it is a very usefull, informative and timely production, and re-inforces the importance and intimate part Oil plays in all our lives.
I dont think it takes the pessimistic view - just the realistic one.
Ricks view that we should use it up now to force the "new" technology shows that he missed a few key points from the flim.
This is the same view taken by the classic economists who say all demand will be met by some other product - the only problem is - there is no other product to compete - as the film emphasises.
Its like saying if a bus is falling off a cliff, suddenly everyone will get parachutes due to the sudden demand. But making parachutes takes a lot longer than the bus has before it hits the ground.
Sure, we might be able to get power from nuclear, or solar, and generate some sort of gas for autos, but oil is far more intrinsic in our lives than that - down to the packaging of foodstuffs and a million other uses, that no other product cannot provide as cheaply and easily - once again as the film says.
As far as having a "short sharp pain versus a long agonising decline" - thats about as sensible as spending your superannuation at the roulette table knowing you will never be able to earn as much money as easily, ever again.

And the comments about "refusing to recognise soveriengty of backward oil rich countries", I am ashamed to see that Rick is a fellow australian, and he seemed like such a nice fellow when I met him too. Even if you dont see the moral point of view, maybe if I bring a few "lads" around to Ricks place and "refuse to recognise his soveriengty" and take over his possessions including the 12 prototype pedal powered boats, he might get a new slant on the justice issue, which can only survive with respect for the rights of even "backward" people.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:47 AM
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i think before all this technology made our lives so much easier the people alive had better ( happiness),healthier,lives,,had waY better morals,,were way tougher,,,went to work no matter how they felt,,would break a leg, splint it up with 2 limbs, grab the horses or whatever, and went along their day as usual, work,home thingys, farm animal thingy's,,,,,and at the end of the day had a sense of accomplishment that most of us will never have,,,,,we think we do,,but what really is the big deal of going to some job that dont even make ya sweat,,wash ya car,,watch t.v......and buy ya meal at mcdonalds,,,,sad what we think is a big deal
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby View Post
Brian, Your glowing critique of the film was sufficient to get me to waste about 90 minutes. There is nothing new there. There are believers and non-believers. Nothing in the film will change people's minds....don't bother watching the film - it adds nothing new.Rick W.
I don't believe I said there was anything new there. I posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
...it was simply the most well-done, informative and attention-grabbing program I've seen related to peak oil concerns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
...I don't see anything new in terms of oil and climate related issues and concerns, but the program explains the science (much of it recent) behind terms like "peak oil", "greenhouse climate" and "global warming" in the most engaging way I've seen to date.
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Originally Posted by Rick
It takes about 30 years to get a new technology accepted. If you cannot see a glint of something new now or a new way of doing things then it will not be in place in 30 years. So there is little chance the world....
Lets see how long did it take for the USA to put a man on the moon once they decided to go for it !!! Do you remember the Apollo program. or were you even born yet.
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Originally Posted by Rick
The change to conservation cannot occur at the required rate. No point in conserving the stuff
That's real optimistic. Lets burn it all up in automobiles so we have none for all the other products that are petroluem based....including all plastics and resins and etc, etc. And food producing items, etc.
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:45 PM
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Brian
With the aim of keeping the thread going -

I have only one issue with what you put in the previous post - That concerns Apollo. If you look at space exploration - moon visits are still not for the masses 30 years on. The first one was 1969 and 1999 has long gone and it is not happening regularly. My point is not that - it can be done. It is if it is accepted as everyday event. (There are people around who consider the moon landing was a hoax anyhow.)

If you take "space" as a technology eg global orbit - the first orbit was in the 1950s. We now see space orbit as a regular every day technology. Most notable are things like communications, GPS and Google Maps. These things did not exploit the fact that we could put objects into orbit for everyday uses for the masses until about 30 years after the original orbit. It is still not practical for us all to be circling the globe but we certainly make everyday use of orbiting craft. Again supports my opinion that it takes 30 years.

It is my expectation that anyone with half a brain can see that continued oil usage is unsustainable but there are apparently sensible people who consider the price increases a government conspiracy. You have posted on one of the other threads on climate change so you can know what I mean.

You do not have to scan through very many threads on this site to appreciate how little positive action is being taken to conserve carbon based fuels. You often see surface drives on 50ft pleasure craft capable of 60kts discussed here. The forum has whole threads dedicated to surface drives and the attendant monstrous fuel guzzling engines that power them. I get the feeling that many on this forum think 1 gallon per hour is real economy. Nothing is the only acceptable target.

So back to the topic - the little film will not make anyone change their mind about fuel consumption or the way they use carbon fuels. The journalists "revelation" that oil products are used everywhere in everyday life was a bit like the 14yo child learning that milk comes from cows or eggs come from chickens. I would hope educated people know a little about organic chemistry and how intricately our daily lives are tied to its exploitation.

Rick W.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by the1much View Post
do they talk about how the chemicals and "others" that come with the crude oil is as bad or worse to the enviroment then the oil itself?,,,,i drather ask a simple question like that before wasting time watching a movie that are full of facts ( usually for one side) and only told from 1 side of the issue.
TY brian
You want to know what its about before watching it?
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:01 PM
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Errr I think that after all said and done Brian is talking most sence here. He has at least watch the documentary and assesed it as he feels, which is what you are supposed to do. We need as much information as possible on this so as to make some desicions which the world seems reluctant to do, even reluctance to listen anymore about it, probably because there is so much controversy, confusion and worse --very much worse, bigotry.

I dont like Al Gore or his documentary , but I have watched it.

NOTE-- Al Gores documentary is shown in English schools with the additional comment that not all of it is true.

When I have seen "crude 'then I can comment on it.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:01 PM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
So back to the topic - the little film will not make anyone change their mind about fuel consumption or the way they use carbon fuels. The journalists "revelation" that oil products are used everywhere in everyday life was a bit like the 14yo child learning that milk comes from cows or eggs come from chickens. I would hope educated people know a little about organic chemistry and how intricately our daily lives are tied to its exploitation.
Regrettably not everyone in this world is as intelligent as you, so a 'little educational film' for the other masses can be helpful. It might surprise you that there are a lot of folks who have no idea that the whole plastics industry is based on petroleum. Many have no idea of the 'un-oxygenated ocean bottoms', nor the fact that it's the polar ice caps that facilitate the ocean mixing, or even that ocean currents are required. A lot of people have no idea where oil comes from, nor how a power plant or internal combustion engine works. My point is it was a good film, well presented.

I learned a few new things from this film. You didn't learn one thing??

Will it make people change their ways? This 'little film' was made in such a manner as to be understandable to the masses. And as such likely remembered by a large number of people. When they go to vote on an environmental subject, I'd be willing to bet that many will conger up an image from this film. They may not have retained an image of the term global warming, but I bet they retain an image of the potential cycle of things....one thing influencing the other, and so on down the line. It will have an impact.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I have only one issue with what you put in the previous post - That concerns Apollo. If you look at space exploration - moon visits are still not for the masses 30 years on. The first one was 1969 and 1999 has long gone and it is not happening regularly. My point is not that - it can be done. It is if it is accepted as everyday event. (There are people around who consider the moon landing was a hoax anyhow.)
My point here was very simple. We went from German V-2 rockets to putting a man on the moon in 9 years time....freaking amazing when you think about it.!! Apollo Space Program

Mankind can overcome amazing odds, if he puts a real effort into it.
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