any profesional fishermen out there

[Boston]

excavators always make a fortune, even a crappy little backhoe spits out 100's all day long. I've thought of buying one but then the economy tanked thanks to the fascist Reorge and his squandering of the Clinton surpluses. ( sorry had to ) and it just didn't seem the time to invest in construction. I sure hit that one on the nail head eh.

Anyway back onto subject, Mark did you fill out your app for the citizen conservationist science project, you get to work with frogs and salamanders?

speaking of which I just ate some fresh wild Steelhead Salmon peppered, smoked over Alder and slathered in chili oil and garlic paste. Would be a crime if that stuff ever went the way of the Dodo.

ok Tad thanks for the link lots of great stuff there but unfortunately it'll have to wait a few days, I'm preparing a presentation for the Hysterical preservation board in Boulder on a house I have a contract on and if I want a meeting on Wed I have to get this crap turned in by tomorrow.

anyway thanks for all the great info and ya
politic
lets try and keep it to a minimum cause you know Jeff just loves it when we descend that slippery slope.

[cthippo]

Originally Posted by mark775

I think I would prefer an armageddon to what you people are doing, and propose to do, to the world.

Fortunately for you, us liberals also support your right to death with dignity if you decide that's what you want to do. Your armageddon should be your choice.

Hippo, knowing the way libs hate firearms (in general), it won't soon be my death. I admit to going a bit overboard at times but I'm getting one of these for blacktail (amongst other things):

It's an integrally suppressed AAC .300 BLK. 30 Cal but subsonic using .223 brass slightly louder than my pellet gun. Only good for a couple hundred yards but that's all we used to shoot anyway. The looks aren't conventional, Bos, but I think you'd appreciate this one when the brown bears hear dinner bells at gunfire, they won't even know your there! The round is designed to fire out of the AR platform but I'm looking for the edge on accuracy and noise of the bolt gun for deer hunting. I am pretty sure that this will be the quietest way to take down an animal at 200 yds. If the stupids get their heads out of their asses about "silencers", we might even get some near-city areas opened up to quiet arms like this. I found a vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPiqZ...feature=relmfu
Bos, the guy is making money today. If it were so great, everybody would be doing it. In fact, I've got a nephew that is losing his ass, and excavator and truck, in the not-free state of Washington. I know somebody that has a dirt business in WA that had seventy employees. When it came time to lay off two-thirds of them, Obama bumper stickers were part of the equation. You are delusional if you attribute prosperity to Clinton. Spent money starts in the House, remember, and the prosperity was due to President Reagan's policies. This's all on politics for me for now but did you hear that the protester's in Libya were calling out for George W.? I don't think that they're too impressed with The One.
Have you heard from Troy?

[cthippo]

Nah, you're better off with a DeLisle Carbine.



Basically it's a .303 Lee-Enfield action re-chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, which is inherently subsonic, and fitted with an integral silencer. They're accurate out to around 200 yards and generally regarded as being the most silent firearm made. I'm not familiar with the round you're describing, but as you've claimed so many times, it's hard to beat a .45 for stopping power.

[Boston]

your not going to shoot any frogs with that thing are you?

I haven't heard from Troy in a while
but I think he posted on "chess matches" yesterday
something about he's getting his ass handed to him on some chess forum ?

hmmmmm
ok so bear for dinner once you bait him with that 400yrd 7mil ultra mag dinner gong

on the lighter side
as goes the amphibians so goes your nads
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12634109

[viking north]

Ok if we're off the politics of which i'm probably a little guilty and on to saving the animals that can co exist with humans for food. Thats provided there are still real men around to hunt them not the pussys that want someone else to do their killing for them.
Photo, last year, NFLD. moose hunt. Firearm: Savage, 3006, stainless, nylon stock, pressure and hair triggers,300yds. open sights(iron sites) one shot, backbone above the foresholder.( douting guy in the background ranging my shot) This was the 750lb. calf. Almost had to shoot the cow also, she came at me three times until i got the head shot into the calf to keep it quiet.(blood in it's ear) Spotted 28 moose in three days well up in the mountains but all to far for open sights. Never used a scope, don't like them , useless in the bush, falling snow or rain . Is that an automatic or semi automatic in Marks post, aaahhh thats not sportsmanship. The other post of the old 303 modified is and interesting piece of kit. I have my grndfathers old 303. Good old gun up there with, 270, 3006, 308. I bush hunt deer, bear and moose with a single shot old style 45-70, 300 grn. hollow point. Good up to 100yds. no prob. Black bear in Newfoundland are big animals, record is 800lb. unoffical record 850lb. Ok these are the wildlife that possibly will survive, they can co exist with man and are useful in the food chain plus are available in good numbers as the youngins are too lazy to hunt and too wimpy over blood. --Geo.

Yes, I agree, Viking, and I think that the sanitization of eating (Without getting off the couch, stalking, comaraderie, cleaning, packaging, work of getting the thing out and home, and eating healthy stuff that you and your friends and family were responsible for) is part of the problem with the world today.
C hippo knows the Delisle! Yes, that old piece of crap... you don't have one you'd sell, do you?.. Actually, it is a museum piece, Dude, and a wonderful relic but .45 stands for 45 yd range. Kidding but you get the point. Bear in mind that the slow-moving .300 BLK will have a 23" drop at 200 yards when centered at 100 but not the trebuchet trajectory of the .45. Anyway, one can near duplicate the priceless Delisle except the cool, with an integrally silenced $300 Camp Carbine (Marlin)


(add "presently in demand" fee, $200 federal tax stamp for a suppressor, and $650 for a nice integral job. You just can't go lobbing .45 softballs at animals at 200 yards. They'll step out of the way!


guess which one carries more energy farther...

"but as you've claimed so many times, it's hard to beat a .45 for stopping power." - I may have said something in passing but I haven't "claimed so many times" as I am not a big proponent of stopping power. The reason I like the mass of this .300 BLK is that the mass carries the trajectile's energy farther. If I could get a subsonic smaller round to be effective at 200 yards, I'd do it. Going faster than sound is what causes the "crack" of rifles, and is what I'd like to avoid. Even un-suppressed, a subsonic anything is relatively quiet.
I was trying to avoid too much idle chat on Bos's thread. We'd better talk about a lizard or what round is most suitable to lizard blasting. (pellet gun inside of 25 yards, .22 250 between 25 and 200 yards, just regular old .22lr if on a budget)

And winning the prize for "Most Googled Response" :

Nah, you're better off with a DeLisle Carbine.
Basically it's a .303 Lee-Enfield action re-chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, which is inherently subsonic, and fitted with an integral silencer. They're accurate out to around 200 yards and generally regarded as being the most silent firearm made. I'm not familiar with the round you're describing, but as you've claimed so many times, it's hard to beat a .45 for stopping power. - What'd you do, Google "quietest gun" so that you could appear to know something? Tell the truth, did you know what a DeLisle was, and if so, why would a leftist be a firearm and military history buff? If you did just Google it, carry on, there is a lot of info on the development and politics of getting that thing to the British Special Forces in the field, and a famous use thereof. If you did know of the gun, tell us some history - it doesn't get more interesting than that! I think somebody is making replicas, but these things are crude, really, from a war when if it didn't work, you'd just send another guy in. Absolutely something to display under glass but not be relyed upon in combat and certainly not bounced around and getting rained on hunting.

[viking north]

Are you guys talking about the standard 45cal Browning and colt semi auto ww11 sidearm ammo. That was the same ammo we used in our bren guns (the plumbers dream) in the military. What are you shooting at handi capped pumpkins certainly not for hunting. No comparison with the 45-70 cartridge which is basically the same caliber but possibly twice as much powder and available from 300 to 500 grn. Also available in a hand gun. I'd face a griz, with one of these. As a matter of fact I carried one when i was hiking/camping in the Canadian Rockies total wilderness by myself back in the 70's. Made the bloody thing myself from an old rifle that was at one time used for seal hunting. Totally illegial but effective. To keep the thread on track I didn't kill anything therefore helped preserve a species, which by the way is also endangered. Oh for the youth again ---Geo.

[bntii]

This is from the latest National Fisherman:



Edit- unreadable.. I will work on it.

OK- it is readable if you click on image twice to get it bigger..

[cthippo]

Originally Posted by mark775

And winning the prize for "Most Googled Response" :

Nah, you're better off with a DeLisle Carbine.
Basically it's a .303 Lee-Enfield action re-chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge, which is inherently subsonic, and fitted with an integral silencer. They're accurate out to around 200 yards and generally regarded as being the most silent firearm made. I'm not familiar with the round you're describing, but as you've claimed so many times, it's hard to beat a .45 for stopping power. - What'd you do, Google "quietest gun" so that you could appear to know something? Tell the truth, did you know what a DeLisle was, and if so, why would a leftist be a firearm and military history buff? If you did just Google it, carry on, there is a lot of info on the development and politics of getting that thing to the British Special Forces in the field, and a famous use thereof. If you did know of the gun, tell us some history - it doesn't get more interesting than that! I think somebody is making replicas, but these things are crude, really, from a war when if it didn't work, you'd just send another guy in. Absolutely something to display under glass but not be relyed upon in combat and certainly not bounced around and getting rained on hunting.

Nope, I've been interested in military tech all my life and in fact, I own a couple of guns. I've also been fascinated by the DeLisles for quite some time, but I can't imagine jumping through the hoops to own one.

Make assumptions about those who disagree with you at your own risk.

@ Viking...

Yeah, same round as the M1911 fires. The challenge with "silenced" or suppressed weapons is that unless you slow the bullet down below the speed of sound the shock wave created is still distinctly audible. The problem with subsonic ammo is that terminal energy is a function of both the mass of the bullet and the speed at which it is traveling. The .223 round fired by nearly modern western assault rifles is no bigger than a standard .22 Long Rifle bullet, it's just moving much faster and therefore has a significant amount of remaining energy. In order for a subsonic round to have any significant terminal energy it needs to be pretty massive and that's why the .45 ACP was chosen. a standard .45 bullet weighs 15.16g, over double the 7.45g of a 9mm Parabellum round. If both are fired at the same initial velocity the .45 will have something over twice the energy when it arrives.

Pistol rounds are generally considered useful for short ranges only, but this is largely a function of the barrel you're launching them out of. A longer barrel results in greater accuracy and higher muzzle velocity and during WW2 the DeLisle was considered to be useful out to 300-400 yards.

[bntii]

Originally Posted by cthippo

In order for a subsonic round to have any significant terminal energy it needs to be pretty massive and that's why the .45 ACP was chosen. a standard .45 bullet weighs 15.16g, over double the 7.45g of a 9mm Parabellum round. If both are fired at the same initial velocity the .45 will have something over twice the energy when it arrives.

.

That's the trick though- they are not fired at the "same initial velocity"

[viking north]

-Getting back on partial track( although I am interested in more feedback on the 45-70 round, actually in heavy low velocity rounds in general so not to side track this thread I will open a Wild Meat Food Source Thread) BNTII, your fish stats posting "National Fisherman, (Very well respected publication) further indicates the shift of the fishing industry away from the mom and pop fishery into bigger operations. While this has disadvantages it also has advantages if run properly. It becomes more organized in regulation, actual fishing,and monitoring. The big question being, will the resultant Big company Lobby Groups override the proper qoutas and regulation enforcement necessary to maintain healthy stocks or will that all present devil GREED take over. While the mom and pop operations did have some political clout they were fragmented to their individual politicans. The danger of consolidation is in their BEAN COUNTERS and the almity bottom line and excuse the pun but trawls will not satisfy their appetite and therein lies the danger and the need for arms length regulating.---Geo

OOPS--Just checked the headings, Can't open "Wild Meat Food Source Hunting" as there is no classification i can place it under and rightly so I guess as it has nothing to do with boating unless we shoot fish

There are no hoops to jump through to get a DeLisle - just stack the money high enough and step through... Well, there is the Federal Tax Stamp in the US but that's nothing - form a trust, fill out a form, and send it in with a check for $200.
300-400yds., my ass. Seriously, there is a craze happening with Marlin Camp Carbines right now (they have one very special feature which also was the reason they were discontinued) and they are going for $700 -$800 on Gunbroker.com, but if this spike ends (if people stop thinking the world is coming to an end, in other words, if Ron Paul gets elected), the real, long-term average price will be about $450, NIB. Get one of these and try to hit a man-sized target at 300 yds. If you hit it, it will be in the top of the head. .45 ACP will drop about 20 feet at that range. Think about that, and that any little breath of wind has forever to act upon it (granted, it's heavy, so wind won't move it as much as a lighter projectile).
The DeLisle was not chosen for its accuracy but for the same reasons I delineated, namely, that it carries energy at subsonic velocities, accurately enough out to perhaps 200yds. They were meant to take out sentries from around 100yds. Some had a felt-lined box for catching brass. There were something like just over 100 made. There was ONE specific mission for which these were developed (but actually used on many others). I had a book on this and cannot locate - I'd hope you'd fill us in. Sorry for questioning your Delisle knowledge - You just sound stilted - like you had just read and relayed rather than knew, and it is an anachronism for a leftist to be interested in guns - you don't have medieval swords and burn gonesh, do you? Please, tell us some more! Do you think it would be good for dispatching amphibians?
Viking, I don't know anything about the 45-70 other than that it is a cannon. I question how easy it would be to hang onto something like this little one: