American users

[masalai]

eponodyne, thank you for clarifying things... In rabid moments I may attempt to tar all with the same feather, but it is meant for the implied guilty - - Most of you septics are loved in an aussy way one would love a loud neighbour who is mostly friendly and helpful, but you know we humans are all guilty of using a tar brush that is far too big in general "pissing contests"...

[harlemriverman]

eponodyne, people have friends that can cross all borders, languages and cultures. nations have allies, not friends, we cannot look to our allies for constructive criticism. we must look in a mirror.

our mirror shows a pale, sickly, fat, loud, gluttonous and angry bully glued to a television screen asking itself how we got this way.

the cure is put down the clicker, get off the couch, and get back into shape physically and mentally. there's no magical answer out there, its a just do it. and when we get ourselves healthy again, we will see just how corrupt, divisive and self-destructive we have let our government become.

democracies get this way from time to time, its an age old problem. we'll turn the corner with a fix, and that's because we're america, but its just another bend in a road with many twists past, present and future. we must always keep ourselves and this government in balance.

read about the uss liberty. this is how even the best of our allies treat us. we're not going to find constructive criticism from this world, just criticism. and its not going to take us anywhere we need to go. our fix is internal.

[PAR]

Unlike the vast majority of governments around the world, ours permits it's dirty laundry to be hung to air in the open. The good, the bad, the in between, the gay senator foot tappers, the oval office debutants, even electing illiterate presidents. We don't kill reporters for writing news paper articles, that don't show the government in a good light, like they do in other countries, nor do we recognize a difference between a bonehead and a Rhodes scholar, they're all the same to us.

In spite of the current excuses and excesses of the latest administration, we'll carry on with a new one. Efforts will be made to undo the wrongs and maybe generate some rights.

This is precisely what democracy is all about. It permits even the most unlikely a chance. Two years ago, had a poll been taken, suggesting a half black, half Hawaiian, junior senator, with very limited governing experience, raised by a single mom with a name a character away from being the same as the most hated in country, would become president, all would laugh until it hurt. In spite of the pendants to the contrary, just this is now president elect.

The USA doesn't owe any one or any country an apology. Sure we've made mistakes, we'll not only fix them, but we'll pay to fix yours too, then we'll forgive the dept years later.

This country isn't about government so much as it's about our people. Everyone cried about the small amount we were providing the tsunami victims a few years back. Yep, it was a pittance, but you didn't count the most important element, our people, who gave far more then all the other counties combined.

Why is it that our country, the one every other country bitches about is the first one asked when it time for serious help. Because they know it'll come. Even in places they refuse our help, it still gets there, just through a back door. This country has bailed out just about every other on the face of the planet at one point or another. Not our government, but our people. Home owners that send off an extra 20 bucks to help purchase food for a village they'll never see or who's name they couldn't pronounce.

Now we've stepped up democracy one more notch and elected a minority figure. In the countries of Europe, the very ones so quick to condemn us and declare our values corrupt and our people too fat, this isn't going to happen for decades. England is the most likely, but it'll be 20 years. France, hell they can't even get a sentence around the concept. All these "free societies", but just don't ask a Frenchman about electing a man with a Muslim sounding name to be their lead official. In fact it's wise not to mention the subject of Muslims in France at all, especially what gets done to them. Free, my ass.

This tolerance and eventual acceptance is what makes this country great and has kept it great, in the very eyes of those who speak poorly of us. We can make a difference, have made a difference and will continue to do so. The rest can't sit on their freedoms, passing it out like AA chips as if they had to earn them. We'll just offer them up to any and all that show up and the sons of these people just might get elected president some day.

The world is a fine place, having grown from 2.5 billon to 6 since WWII. In a large part this is only possible with the repeated kindness of the people of the USA. We rebuilt Europe after WWII, ditto Japan and forgave the dept. We single-handedly held off the potential over run of all of Europe and Asia from soviet aggression, then forced them to "anti up" or fold their war machine ideals. We've placed more technology in the hands of the worlds people then anyone else, we've opened up communications to the most remote places, we've improved health care by leaps and bounds, so much so, that world leaders don't trust their own doctors enough and come here when major surgery is required.

Philanthropy is a uniquely American way. It would be nice, if the rest of the world would catch on to the obviously charitable efforts by the people of the USA.

[masalai]

Par, as the bastard son of an American serviceman who would like to meet his father (who came from Portland?) with the Christian name of Robert), I believe I have some (illegitimate) right to comment in this thread....

There are many good things Americans do but bashing the ears of the rest of the world how good and generous you are, (not individually but as a nation), is too much like saying <deleted> so instead I suggest Luke 18 v9-14.....

[harlemriverman]

Originally Posted by masalai

Par, as the bastard son of an American serviceman who would like to meet his father (who came from Portland?) with the Christian name of Robert), I believe I have some (illegitimate) right to comment in this thread....

There are many good things Americans do but bashing the ears of the rest of the world how good and generous you are, (not individually but as a nation), is too much like saying <deleted> so instead I suggest Luke 18 v9-14.....

roger that masalai.

par, charitable giving is a uniquely poor to middle class phenomina in this country. our government does not give, our tax payers do that, and the wealthiest in this country do not give at all...real dollars, not percentages and its enough to make you puke when you look at what the wealthy do with their money. oh yeah, and they don't pay taxes but they're americans too.

may i humbly offer that you sharpen the sword with all those broad accolades on "american" charity.

[ratrace2]

Par. . .Here here, well said . .ANYBODY DON"T LIKE IT.. .. . . .I'll be on a plane. . . . . "This One" . .

[PAR]

All anyone has to do is pick from the list of the most wealthy in this country and see the billons given away each year.

I'll repeat;

"Philanthropy is a uniquely American way. It would be nice, if the rest of the world would catch on to the obviously charitable efforts by the people of the USA"

Most wealthy Europeans don't do this, nor do the vast majority of the other wealthy citizens of other countries.

Folks are quick to bitch, but happily cash their US derived checks in spite of their reverie to the contrary.

This isn't simple speculation, but purely current and historically accurate fact.

The wealthy in this country provide more dollars then any other class of US citizen. This is a slightly misleading statement, in that the money they offer is from a much larger pool.

Examples (2006 figures) would be Warren Buffett's nearly 50 billon, Herbert Sandler's 1+ billion, Leon Levy's 550 million, Rockefeller's 250 million. These alone easily out rank the mustering of the middle class. Yes, the middle class does toss around a higher percentage of their wealth, but the totals pale in comparison to the amounts the wealthy provide. The actual money provided by these few rich Americans (say just the top 50), dwarfs the extreme majority of other nations annual budgets!

You can bitch and complain all you want, but frankly, taking money and complaining about the provider, some how seems a bit hollow to me and I suspect most other Americans, informed enough to understand the realities of this particular subject (as opposed to the speculation provided here by some).

Go ahead and look up what the Queen of England offered up in 2006 and compare that to an American of similar wealth. How about those fat princes of the middle east? Oh please . . .

[harlemriverman]

Originally Posted by PAR

All anyone has to do is pick from the list of the most wealthy in this country and see the billons given away each year.
. . .

i've been through three capital campaigns with five independent consulting firms that specialize raising money from the rich. that's not to say some rich people don't contribute, but the facts are that the vast majority do things like contribute their names to charitable causes. they'll even go so far as to gaurantee debt, but they hardly contribute on par with the poor and middle class. you're facts are way off there.

[bntii]

"In 2006, Americans donated 2.2 percent of their average disposable, or after-tax, income, a figure above the 40-year average of 1.8 percent. Brooks told USINFO that he sees over the past 50 years “a trend toward greater charitable giving” in the United States."

http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-e...0.8012354.html

“The statistics on giving in North America is very interesting and surprising, “ remarks Michael Bacolas of World Lending Services.
Michael Bacolas quotes some very interesting statistics on charitable contributions.
A relatively small group of truly wealthy individuals is currently responsible for the majority of giving in the United States and Canada, as well as most of the rest of the world:
” You’d be surprised the breakdown in the United States on who is most responsible for charitable donations, “ explains Michael Bacolas."

"In the U.S., the 4.9% of families with net worth of $1-million or more make 42% of the total during-life contributions to charitable organizations. Of this small but wealthy group, those families with $1-million or more in net worth plus annual incomes exceeding $1-million comprise only 0.2% of the population, yet contribute 14% of all during-life ("inter vivos") giving, while 4.7% with income less than $1-million contributed 28% of all current giving. Paul G. Schervish and John J. Havens, "The New Physics of Philanthropy: The Supply Side Vectors of Charitable Giving/ Part 1: The Material Side of the Supply Side."

http://www.prlog.org/10122557-michae...ributions.html

[masalai]

What happened to the Biblical standard of tithing? - - - Is not tithing easy to bear? - in charitable works - not necessarily to the church.... What do the wealthy in USA do? your claim is???? as a bunch - almost watertight???? even the above statistics demonstrate this selfish per capita per $ attitude - - - - yell louder with deeds not other noises....

"Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly"(Matt 6:1-4NKJV).

[harlemriverman]

roger that masalai, its disgusting what american elite do with their money. eye of the needle brother.